Adventure Gamers - Forums

I saw the article on Mashable yesterday, and it definitely got me interested. I love the QfG games, I played each of them at least 10 times, and I’ll definitely be backing that.

Still, it brings me back to a question that I regularly ask myself when I think about replaying games: do we still need Quest for Glory in this day and age? I mean, in the early 90s, most RPGs were mindless dungeon crawlers, and the QfG series brought stronger stories, scores of extremely memorable characters and gameplay that was much more varied than “explore dungeon, kill monsters”. But beginning in the second half of the 90s, lots of RPGs started incorporating these elements, and often doing it even better than the QfG games did. What I’m saying is: after Baldur’s Gate, and Planescape Torment, and Knights of the Old Republic, and Morrowind, what does Quest for Glory have to offer? Or, to look to the future: why back Hero-U when you could just give more money to Project Eternity?

When the Tex Murphy series ended, that was the end of this particular sub-genre. To this day, nobody has done what they were doing at the level of quality they were doing it—and that’s what made Project Fedora so exciting to me. But when the Quest for Glory series ended, other games came along that delivered pretty much everything I loved about the QfG games, and then some.

Once again (and before inm8#2 jumps at my throat ), I love what the Coles have done in the past and I’m not trying to come up with reasons not to back this (I definitely will). But, if they want their Kickstarter to succeed, they will definitely have to show that they have something to bring to the table beyond what they did at the time of QfG. They’re intelligent and creative people, so hopefully they will.

Sign me…the F**K UP! They really sound like they have a great plan.

@ Kuru - LOL, nice to see my past rants have made an impression! I think everyone would agree that you want to see what people are going to do before committing. But honestly, just from reading their descriptions in the mashable article, I think they have their shit together and a very clear vision that people will like. Earlier it was thought they were doing some kind of adventure/MMO multiplayer game, but it’s going to be single player only.

Also, they mentioned $400k as the base goal, so that seems doable. Can’t imagine them getting fewer than 6000 backers.

@Kuru, the humor sets it apart from all the rest. Also, while many RPGs contain adventure elements, i consider QFG first and foremost adventure games, with RPG elements. This hybrid (favoring the adventure side) is also a rarity.

I’m disappointed that the style is a 2D RPG. I’d have loved the see more RPG’s with adventure game style graphics. (Unfortunately the Echoes of Aeons Kickstarter failed.)

I’m not all that excited about this, but I’m a fan of Brawsome so I’ll take a look at it when it goes live.

Kurufinwe - 18 September 2012 06:52 PM

When the Tex Murphy series ended, that was the end of this particular sub-genre. To this day, nobody has done what they were doing at the level of quality they were doing it—and that’s what made Project Fedora so exciting to me. But when the Quest for Glory series ended, other games came along that delivered pretty much everything I loved about the QfG games, and then some.

Well, I totally disagree there. I have played pretty much every major RPG released since QfG 5 showed up (obviously including your examples), and while some of them have had a feel that’s reminded me somewhat of the Quest for Glory-games - Morrowind being a good example - none of them have delivered an overall experience like the one in those games. These are RPGs first and foremost, there are no real puzzles in Morrowind for instance, just like there are no loot-filled dungeons in Quest for Glory. Just like with Tex Murphy, Quest for Glory’s sub genre died with the series.

Also, I don’t believe you’re giving early 90s RPGs enough credit. Ultima VII came out in 1992 and is still pretty much one of the best RPGs around when considering things like story, character interaction, freedom to use own solutions, et.c. In fact, if we’re going to look at QfG-like RPGs, I don’t think there are many that come closer than Ultima VII.

Having said this, I’m not quite convinced that the new game is what I would prefer, as a QfG-fan. It does seem like it’s crossing a bit too much into RPG territory. Naturally I understand that the Coles are making the game they want to make, and I am absolutely going to back it. But I think I would have dug deeper in my wallet if it looked more like a QfG-game.

As an officially appointed Hero U spokesperson here are my responses. :

1) We definitely have an amazing team, a fully written out story, and a great plan for moving forward.  You can keep track of our pre-kickstarter updates at: http://www.hero-u.net/leaders/ or on Facebook by liking us at http://www.facebook.com/TheSchoolForHeroes.

Still, it brings me back to a question that I regularly ask myself when I think about replaying games: do we still need Quest for Glory in this day and age? I mean, in the early 90s, most RPGs were mindless dungeon crawlers, and the QfG series brought stronger stories, scores of extremely memorable characters and gameplay that was much more varied than “explore dungeon, kill monsters”. But beginning in the second half of the 90s, lots of RPGs started incorporating these elements, and often doing it even better than the QfG games did. What I’m saying is: after Baldur’s Gate, and Planescape Torment, and Knights of the Old Republic, and Morrowind, what does Quest for Glory have to offer? Or, to look to the future: why back Hero-U when you could just give more money to Project Eternity?

Interesting points.  1) Can there really be enough great RPGs? It’s rare when people get it right.  2) This won’t just be a rehash of a past QfG. We will have a new combat system, while having a focus on great characters/story and real choices.  3) Please do fund Project Eternity more (selfish reason that I want as much as possible from that game), but please fund us to create something great as well.

I’m disappointed that the style is a 2D RPG. I’d have loved the see more RPG’s with adventure game style graphics. (Unfortunately the Echoes of Aeons Kickstarter failed.)

We’re sticking to 2D Graphics as it let’s us build the largest game possible with an indie art budget. Don’t worry though, our background artist has already put together some stunning background art, so we will definitely be using hand drawn adventure game style backgrounds for story parts.

Having said this, I’m not quite convinced that the new game is what I would prefer, as a QfG-fan. It does seem like it’s crossing a bit too much into RPG territory.

We will be making adventure game oriented puzzles/solutions an important piece of the game, especially in the School non-dungeon parts of the game. Keep in mind that Corey is obsessed with making puzzles, so they will definitely be included. It’s hard to say if it’ll be more RPG like than QfG’s in playstyle, but due to the 2-D style it will seem more RPG like.

If you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them.

Cheers,

- Michael

I was just thinking about this and how excited I am…

I bet the Quest for Infamy team got in and got funded before this.

Great to see all the old school developers coming back.

Nice posts, Kurufinwe, inm8#2, and Kolorabi (hope I got all the names right).

Would it make more sense to make a game “much like” Quest for Glory?  Hard to say.  In any case, between the original Hero’s Quest and Quest for Glory 5, development budgets ballooned from $250K up to over $2.5M.  Even if it was “only” $1.5M, that’s too much to ask on Kickstarter.

Besides, Kurufinwe makes an excellent point - You can’t step into the same stretch of river twice.  The Quest for Glory games were a unique combination of Lori’s and my background with the tools we had available at Sierra.  If we had been working for a company with different tools, we would have made an entirely different game.

In fact, when I designed Castle of Dr. Brain - using those same tools - I would argue that *it* was an entirely different look and feel from Quest for Glory.  Based on reviews and comments, people seem to think it was just as fun.  Did lightning just happen to strike twice in the same place, or did I actually know something about designing games?  A little of each, I’d say.

We tend to look at games, films, etc. with the unique perspective of being able to see the finished product.  Will Hero-U be as much fun to play as Quest for Glory (pick your favorite number)?  That’s impossible to tell.  Filmmakers all think they’re making great films, but only in hindsight can we find out which ones were right about which of their films.  Peter Jackson did an amazing job with Lord of the Rings, but I found his King Kong disappointing.  Am I looking forward to his take on The Hobbit - knowing that he’s changed a lot of things?  You bet I am!

What Lori and I will promise is that we are putting the same work and dedication into Hero-U as we put into each of our other games.  We still have the same “gamers sensibility” that we applied as a yardstick each time.  Hopefully we’ll be funny.  Hopefully the dialogue will work as well as it did in Quest for Glory.  Is it possible we’ll get this one wrong?  Sure it’s possible - but I don’t think it’s the way to bet.

Of course, you can always “wait and see”.  But then the game might not happen at all.  It’s pretty much up to you, the players, to determine the fate of Hero-U.  If you want higher production values, support at a higher level and get more of your friends to support the project.  For now, we’ve designed a minimalist style that can be implemented within a reasonable budget.  It’s more important to make sure that we can complete the game than to promise a level of polish that we won’t be able to fund.

It’s all about the story… and the puzzles… and the characters… and the game mechanics… and the play balance. :-)  Those are where we’ll be spending our time.  In the meantime, the only promise we can make is that we will work hard to create the best experience we can.  Really, that’s as much as anyone can promise.

What a pleasant surprise to see you’ve posted here, Corey! Thank you for the insight and comments. As you are aware, there are many eager fans excited to see you unveil your new project. Back in April, when Jane Jensen, Al Lowe, Mark Crowe and Scott Murphy were launching their projects, I saw a lot of people asking about you and Lori. I really think the kickstarter support will be great!

I’m someone who loves to see artists try new things (or make a twist on an existing thing). However, one thing I’ve noticed from the adventure gaming communities during kickstarter is that they are strongly affected by nostalgia and seem to resist change. I can’t blame them too much, as within a short time span in the late 90s we saw our beloved genre overshadowed by the proliferation of 3D games. We all just love the old games and developers very much, but maybe sometimes its hard to separate past from present/future. Your post indicates you’ve thought about this a great deal, but I think a key factor will be conveying to people this is not a QfG game, but a new concept inspired by QfG. Even with the press from the mashable article (any others to come before the kickstarter launches?) and other buzz, some people may still be surprised when the project is not a QfG sequel.

That seems to be the big challenge for some of these projects - balancing the nostalgia and love for old games with the presentation of new ideas/concepts that are inspired by those older games. Just remember that you have an army of loyal fans to spread the word around the web. Sites like reddit are extremely useful - doing an AMA (“ask me anything” - basically a Q&A) on there will no doubt increase exposure big time. The question would be when to do the AMA - it seems many kickstarter developers do one during the middle of the campaign or near the last week to bring in new backers.

I wish you the best of luck and will be ready to join Hero-U!

Lori has posted a more detailed description of Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption at http://www.hero-u.net/leaders/so-what-is-hero-u/.  Please comment there if you have questions about the game.

Great info, thanks! I can’t say I have too many questions at the moment. The premise sounds intriguing and I can’t wait to see the concepts when the kickstarter begins. Maybe then I’ll have some curiosities.

This starts tomorrow! Should be great for old fans of QfG, adventure games, RPGs, etc.

Can’t wait!

Kolorabi - 19 September 2012 04:13 AM

Kurufinwe - 18 September 2012 06:52 PM

When the Tex Murphy series ended, that was the end of this particular sub-genre. To this day, nobody has done what they were doing at the level of quality they were doing it—and that’s what made Project Fedora so exciting to me. But when the Quest for Glory series ended, other games came along that delivered pretty much everything I loved about the QfG games, and then some.

Well, I totally disagree there. I have played pretty much every major RPG released since QfG 5 showed up (obviously including your examples), and while some of them have had a feel that’s reminded me somewhat of the Quest for Glory-games - Morrowind being a good example - none of them have delivered an overall experience like the one in those games. These are RPGs first and foremost, there are no real puzzles in Morrowind for instance, just like there are no loot-filled dungeons in Quest for Glory. Just like with Tex Murphy, Quest for Glory’s sub genre died with the series.

This is my experience as well. While I’m not quite willing to call QFG the best RPG I’ve ever played, I can say I haven’t played anything like it. The way the world, each screen, is designed is totally unique in the RPG genre. That’s everything to me. Knowing the developer did not just select ‘tree’ from a database and insert it into the game world map maybe adding some randomization, but constructed each screen from nothing.

Of course, that’s not to degrade other RPGs - QFG has a relatively small world and I have lots of admiration for those huge RPGs like Ultima and Elder Scrolls which build enormous worlds using engines which are necessary to do so.