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Steam vs GOG
That’s one example. Another is when I saw Riddle of the Sphinx in the library’s multimedia section. I hadn’t heard of it so I decided to borrow it. Loved it and later bought it and the sequel. People will always want to own things.
Now, if I were designing a game, I think I would upload a special copy of the game that would fail about 3/4s in telling the user that it’s a pirated game and that they should pay for the full version if they want to finish the story. It’s extra work, but I wonder if it would help in term of sales.
Game makers are really quite childish. When they grow up (in about 50-100 years) their attitude will shift to the same attitude authors have about libraries, and see the good side of spreading their work about.
Also I have used nocd cracks, fan patches and such in my legally bought games, I’m pretty sure many of those are frowned upon too.
Meh, I’m personally fine with this. I’ve done this often myself. I prefer to install a game, and then be able to run it entirely from my hard disk, without needing the CD/DVD. Not a problem these days, though, since I’ve more or less gone exclusively non-physical.
Only once had to get a pirated version because the legal one didn’t work (BS3 - permanent black screen on start-up), and that didn’t work either… 
Fan patches are often mods for games where the designers actually encourage community modding. That’s perfectly fine, imo. I’ve only once played the vanilla version of Tennis Elbow 2011/13, for instance, using community mods ever since.
I’ve actually done just that, downloaded a game, played it and then paid for the game in full.
Done that plenty of times. All of the games I played when I got my first PC (over twenty years ago) were pirated. You couldn’t even get original ones anywhere before 1995. I went on to acquire most of them legally afterwards anyway.
Same with music. There are several bands of which I own all the CDs, but that I got to know by listening to pirated .mp3s first…
Funny how all that changes once you’re no longer a student and can actually afford these things… 
That’s one example. Another is when I saw Riddle of the Sphinx in the library’s multimedia section. I hadn’t heard of it so I decided to borrow it. Loved it and later bought it and the sequel. People will always want to own things.
^ This as well. Bought several books, CDs and games after having first read/listened/played the library’s copy…
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Yeah - items lent out at a library have been paid for. And they’re lent out and returned so people can use them. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison for software piracy at all.
There IS also a world of difference between downloading a nocd version for something you legally bought and just stealing something outright.
To suggest that it’s wrong for software and game developers to want people to pay for their work is ludicrous.
Bt
Yeah - items lent out at a library have been paid for. And they’re lent out and returned so people can use them. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison for software piracy at all.
except used game sales annoys publishers just as much as piracy. If libraries were a fight they had a chance at winning, they’d fight it.
Oh come now giom, that’s a bit ridiculous. Imagine borrowing a book from the library and finding the last quarter is blank, telling you to go buy it. Game makers are really quite childish. When they grow up (in about 50-100 years) their attitude will shift to the same attitude authors have about libraries, and see the good side of spreading their work about.
There’s a difference there, libraries are their for that express purpose, pay the author/publisher for the game (sometimes for movies more than the price of the movie bought in a shop since they need a special license) and going to the library to pick up a game implies a certain effort in term of time that is more likely to be done by a penniless student or kid than by someone working who has money but doesn’t have much time.
I don’t see in anyway how it would be ridiculous for a game developer to upload an extended demo in a torrent site so as to catch some of the pirates who download the game and may not plan to pay (if they finish as much as 3/4th of the game it usually means they’re hooked and they actually enjoyed it so they morally should pay).
The problem game makers have is that to make a game, you need money and for indies, it’s quite rare to get rich by developing a game, Correct me if I’m wrong, but I doubt the QFI team became very rich with their game or even got as much money as they could have had had they invested that time in working as software developers on more boring endeavors and that’s even if they made a very good game that is imho every bit worth the price they’re asking for it. They of course get the satisfaction of doing something they love, but love for what you do doesn’t feed you and doesn’t pay for your kid’s education.
To suggest that it’s wrong for software and game developers to want people to pay for their work is ludicrous.
From my reading of the thread only Zifnab is claiming that. Heck, it’d be hypocritical from me to say that since I’m a software developer. I only think that counting the number of downloads from the torrents is likely to give an inaccurate reading due to:
- people trying it for a demo (not as likely because you already offer a fairly good demo)
- people hoarding every new gog games that come on torrent (I knew a lot of people like that who would download a lot but play almost nothing). You can say those people are stealing but if all they do is download it and never actually play it, I’m not sure they really count
I don’t believe that DRM is in anyway useful though because it doesn’t really take long for them to be stripped if they’re any of the commonly used DRMs and they’re just really more of a hassle for the actual paying customers. The only strategy that seems to work is the one by Game Dev Tycoon. But that only works as long as few companies do it.
Yeah - items lent out at a library have been paid for. And they’re lent out and returned so people can use them. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison for software piracy at all.
Pirated games are bought too - how else do people make a copy of them? And nothing is “stolen”, as you claim. It’s a perfectly accurate comparison.
From my reading of the thread only Zifnab is claiming that.
Not at all. It’s not a question I’m interested in. I’m saying developers are probably better off with it than without it. Without piracy, computer games may have turned out to be a niche market like tabletop gaming and nowhere near as huge as it is today. Indie game developers wouldn’t be able to make a living from it.
Think back to how you got into games. For me, it was visiting another kid’s house who made me a floppy disk full of games. No way would I have been able to afford them at my age, but I was hooked and since then have poured thousands into the hobby. Now multiply that experience by millions around the globe. Calculate the effects on the computer industry, the growth of gaming culture, the fact that many kids grew up to make their own games, and most importantly the part about reaching children - who generally have no money. Grown-ups who haven’t tried a game would take one look at Space Quest and dismiss it as a silly toy. Remove the kids from the equation and you remove most of the growth. Without that floppy disk all those years ago, I’d probably be playing saturday morning tennis instead of the newest Wadjet Eye game.
From my reading of the thread only Zifnab is claiming that. Heck, it’d be hypocritical from me to say that since I’m a software developer. I only think that counting the number of downloads from the torrents is likely to give an inaccurate reading due to:
- people trying it for a demo (not as likely because you already offer a fairly good demo)
I’ve played games where the only part of the game that worked smoothly was the part used in the demo. So I can see where some people would want to play the entire game before paying for it. Even games with low system requirements can have buggy sections.
I don’t see in anyway how it would be ridiculous for a game developer to upload an extended demo in a torrent site so as to catch some of the pirates who download the game and may not plan to pay (if they finish as much as 3/4th of the game it usually means they’re hooked and they actually enjoyed it so they morally should pay).
The trouble there is bad publicity. Certain people would proclaim loudly in various forums that the game is bugged and you can’t finish. Potential customers would assume it’s the retail version that’s bugged and not buy it—especially if they only have the budget for one game and they were forced to choose between games—they’d choose a game that didn’t have those rumors of it being too bugged to complete.
Also torrent sites often have comment sections. Early downloaders would quickly comment to let other downloaders know that the torrent was bad—or that the game itself was bugged.
I don’t think there is anything you can do to discourage “pirates” that won’t also discourage potential buyers.
Pirated games are bought too - how else do people make a copy of them? And nothing is “stolen”, as you claim. It’s a perfectly accurate comparison.
Your logic is truly a remarkable thing to behold. The obvious difference is ownership. People don’t download pirated games and then return them after a few weeks’ time. They keep them, because why the hell wouldn’t they?
Not at all. It’s not a question I’m interested in. I’m saying developers are probably better off with it than without it. Without piracy, computer games may have turned out to be a niche market like tabletop gaming and nowhere near as huge as it is today. Indie game developers wouldn’t be able to make a living from it.
Think back to how you got into games. For me, it was visiting another kid’s house who made me a floppy disk full of games. No way would I have been able to afford them at my age, but I was hooked and since then have poured thousands into the hobby. Now multiply that experience by millions around the globe. Calculate the effects on the computer industry, the growth of gaming culture, the fact that many kids grew up to make their own games, and most importantly the part about reaching children - who generally have no money. Grown-ups who haven’t tried a game would take one look at Space Quest and dismiss it as a silly toy. Remove the kids from the equation and you remove most of the growth. Without that floppy disk all those years ago, I’d probably be playing saturday morning tennis instead of the newest Wadjet Eye game.
Wow. “My personal experience pirating games as a kid explains the growth and sustainability of the entire computer game industry.” Bravo, Sir. You have more than earned my Picard slow clap.
Pirated games are bought too - how else do people make a copy of them? And nothing is “stolen”, as you claim. It’s a perfectly accurate comparison.
Your logic is truly a remarkable thing to behold. The obvious difference is ownership. People don’t download pirated games and then return them after a few week’s time. They keep them, because why the hell wouldn’t they?
Except one purchased game is cracked, uploaded and then downloaded by tens if not hundreds of thousands of “pirates.” If you think that one purchased library game you played was checked-out that many times….....pretzel logic.
Zifnab is right though that piracy does have positive sides to it. No matter how illegal and wrong you think it is, it has indeed been a huge reason for the industry growth, spreading of less known material, and free enjoyment for people that could not afford it otherwise. While I really don’t condone the behavior or pirating everything when you are able to purchase the real thing, I don’t think any kind of blind hatred towards piracy is really that much smarter either.
Anyway, one can be 100% against piracy and still be 100% against DRM.
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Pirated games are bought too - how else do people make a copy of them? And nothing is “stolen”, as you claim. It’s a perfectly accurate comparison.
Your logic is truly a remarkable thing to behold. The obvious difference is ownership. People don’t download pirated games and then return them after a few weeks’ time. They keep them, because why the hell wouldn’t they?
The equivalent is still not failing to return a library book. It is more like borrowing it, copying it out in full, then returning it within the hour. If you want to regard that as theft, where the original goes missing, you have a very strange legal dictionary on hand. (In other words - how can something be returned when it has never gone missing?)
But it’s impossible to discuss anything here. Everyone imputes things you don’t mean to say. I think you already know that. And when Bonsai turns up for the obligatory cheap pot-shot, it’s time for the curtain to fall on the discussion.
But it’s impossible to discuss anything here. Everyone imputes things you don’t mean to say. I think you already know that.
I don’t think it’s that bad. Discussions on the Internet… you know…
And when Bonsai turns up for the obligatory cheap pot-shot, it’s time for the curtain to fall on the discussion.
Hear hear!
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
And when Bonsai turns up for the obligatory cheap pot-shot, it’s time for the curtain to fall on the discussion.
Hear hear!
Zifnab, grow some thicker skin if you want to jump in supporting the piracy arguement and stop whining about me. Use your ignore button…....and Karlot, you need to go outside every now and then instead of sitting on this site 24/7…......there’s life out there.
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