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Cage Match#14 (The Bill & Tim Excellent Adventures)
| Poll: The Dig vs. Full Throttle Total Votes: 25 |
|
|---|---|
| The Dig | 13  |
| Full Throttle | 12 |
The Dig Wins!
Score for the record:-
The Dig: 12
Full Throttle: 11
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...or the greatest of the great (part two), but i have always seen Bill Tiller at the top of the pyramid for the most underrated adventure developers of all time, and when you put him in comparison with Tim Schafer then that is a total different story, i want not get into, not here not now not never.
There are nothing to say (or add) about those two gems each of their own (for whom is interested at participating here at this match, as he/she might know more than i already do about each) or for why i have chosen them!, but otherwise there are enough (babbling) of explanations for why i had chosen them to compete against each other:-
So if this match is to represent some other matter ‘underneath’ the subject than the two adventures pitting against each other, then it IS those two amazing adventure developers (Bill and Tim ) themselves pitting against each other (at the background), and that is for so many reasons mostly (all are obvious or maybe more, more intuitive) but it is hard ‘for me’ to bring out and write (phrase) down.
The Dig and Full Throttle, could be the best runner-ups of the LucasArts best time of adventures, if we put The Curse of Monkey Island aside!, only due to the fact that if i didn’t (exclude TCoMI) then its defiantly won’t be a match, and also beside TCoMI are MI, MI2, because the point of having a good match is to bring two to compete fairly (or equally), not to bring one which might knockout the other at a first round.
Also The Dig and Full Throttle are their own babies for each one of them; Bill and Tim (at LucasArts time), as they both weren’t credited as much ‘over many different positions/titles through the game’s developing process’ at any other adventure of LucasArts (keeping in mind that already we had dealt with the greatest; GF & DotT), so at a bigger picture i wanted the match to have them ‘both’ wearing their ‘almost’ fully owned piece of art/weapon,
and at the last, this match idea was always so intriguing (for a while ‘now’ in my head) due to the fact that its result is totally unpredictable .
GAAAH!
The Dig is one of my favourite adventure games of all time, but I have to concede that Full Throttle is better. So I pick Full Throttle (but I really wanted to pick both as I don’t see The Dig getting many votes here)...
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
GAAAH!
The Dig is one of my favourite adventure games of all time, but I have to concede that Full Throttle is better. So I pick Full Throttle (but I really wanted to pick both as I don’t see The Dig getting many votes here)...
No fkn way Timo, No way!
when i was making this i thought uh the again (and again and agin) adventurers will go for Tim as mostly done, but then i thought of you and another (dont wanna mention, so i wouldn’t making it hard on him/her to choose what he/she wants) and you surprise me with this!.
The art for The Dig by Bill Tiller, Bill Eaken, and others is a huge part of its atmosphere, along with Michael Land’s score. However, if we’re looking for the person in the equivalent role to Tim Schafer’s role on Full Throttle, it was Sean Clark who was the designer and director for the version of The Dig that released. (Hence, “A Deep Space Adventure by Sean Clark” on the cover.)
That is not including the unreleased versions of The Dig, led by Noah Falstein, and then by Brian Moriarty, prior to the Sean Clark version.
Bill Tiller’s art for The Dig is a huge part of its atmosphere, along with Michael Land’s score. However, if we’re looking for the person in the equivalent role to Tim Schafer’s role on Full Throttle, it was Sean Clark who designed the version of The Dig that released. (Hence, “A Deep Space Adventure by Sean Clark” on the cover.)
That is not including the unreleased versions of The Dig, led by Noah Falstein, and then by Brian Moriarty, with Dave Grossman pitching in at various phases as well. (See this article.)
maybe i am looking for the person in the equivalent role to Tiller ‘s role on The Dig, as in vise versa 
but two straight questions Cali, i need you to enlighten me with:
1. wasn’t Bill the lead artist for The Dig as was Schafer for Full Throttle?
2. isn’t the released ‘The Dig’ (putting at the other versions aside) considered the most of the (LucasArts) products production given to Tiller; Leading Artist, Director, Designing ?
maybe i am looking for the person in the equivalent role to Tiller ‘s role on The Dig, as in vise versa :P
but two straight questions Cali, i need you to enlighten me with:
1. wasn’t Bill the lead artist for The Dig as was Schafer for Full Throttle?
2. isn’t the released ‘The Dig’ (putting at the other versions aside) considered the most of the (LucasArts) products production given to Tiller; Leading Artist, Director, Designing ?
Game credits aren’t regulated by unions the way that movie credits are, so they tend to get confusing and aren’t very consistent. Also, I don’t claim to be an expert on The Dig’s development history.
But with those two caveats in mind, here’s the credits of The Dig for reference.
I think Bill Tiller’s “Lead Artist” credit is because he was the lead artist by the time The Dig shipped. I think the reason Bill Eaken has an “Art Style” credit is because he was the lead artist on the Brian Moriarty version, assuming this is right. Many of the backgrounds that Eaken painted were still used in the version of the game that was released, so he also got a credit for background art.
Sean Clark is credited as the “Designer & Director” of the version of The Dig that shipped, which basically means he was in charge of the project’s overall creative vision. Underneath him would be other people in charge of specific areas, and one of those would be Bill Tiller, in charge of art. Sean Clark also has a credit for “Dialogue,” which he shares with sci-fi author Orson Scott Card.
And here’s the opening credits of Full Throttle. (That game’s end credits are less helpful in this case, since they start with people not already listed in the opening credits.)
The “Lead Artist” on Full Throttle was Peter Chan.
Tim Schafer was the “Writer, Designer, and Project Leader” of Full Throttle, which again basically means he was in charge of the project’s overall creative vision, with other people underneath him in charge of specific areas (art, programming, etc.)
As I always said, despite Full Throttle’s quality, I really detest its moral messages thus I vote for the Dig.
and you surprise me with this!.
Have you ever taken a good look at my All-Time Top 10???
Full Throttle is ahead of The Dig on every one of them. Full Throttle is a 5-star game in my book while The Dig - no matter how much I love that game - is stuck with a 4.5 (well, really something more akin to 4.75 but I don’t do quarter scores)...
Also, what Caliburn says about the development of The Dig is correct as far as I know.
If you want to make this about Bill Tiller against Tim Schafer, and not about The Dig vs. Full Throttle, then Tim would still win. Bill Tiller is an amazing artist (one of the very best) and the driving force behind the graphical style of my favourite AG ever, but Tim Schafer wrote and designed two of only 6 adventure games that I’ve given 5 stars, and he was the co-designer to a third. Nobody wins against that.
I don’t see The Dig getting many votes here
I was wrong about this, though. The Dig is leading 5-3 at the moment…
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
GAAAH!
The Dig is one of my favourite adventure games of all time, but I have to concede that Full Throttle is better. So I pick Full Throttle (but I really wanted to pick both as I don’t see The Dig getting many votes here)...
Why not? The Dig is leading now ;-)
Both games in fact aren’t considered widely to be the greatest of LucasArts. Also in AG Top 100, both aren’t even in the Top 20 if I recall correctly.
Sure, both may have a strong niche fanbase, but I’d never expect them to be widely recognized as the all time greats of Lucasarts….at least not to the level of Grim, DOTT and Monkey Island 1 and 2.
Back to the cage match:
I prefer The Dig myself, because it’s a great Sci-fi story and I don’t care much for biker/hardrock themes.
In fact, the very best part of Full Throttle is the intro and bar scene….it pretty much goes downhill from there 
It’s short and the action part is pretty poorly implemented. I remember losing hours trying to get thru the ridiculous road fighting scenes.
The Dig, on the other hand, has a great story, great animation and art and imho offers one of the best Adventuregame soundtracks out there. Yes, the puzzles aren’t the games strongest point, but the rest more than makes up for it. So The Dig isn’t such a weird choice….at least when being compared to Full Throttle.
I remember losing hours trying to get thru the ridiculous road fighting scenes.
It’s a puzzle, more or less the same way as fighting the Nazi soldiers is in Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis: you can go the action route, where you really use dexterity to win, or you can “solve the puzzle” which results in a one-hit win (in FoA it could avoid the fight altogether, though).
Basically, you use fertilizer as your weapon against everybody that doesn’t wear goggles, this automatically wins you the fight and will eventually get you the chainsaw. You then use the chainsaw against everybody but the Cavefish, because it also automatically wins you the fight and will eventually get you the two-by-four which is the only weapon that can win against the Cavefish. Or you do it the hard way and fight your way through everybody until you get the two-by-four.
I prefer the first route. 
The Dig, on the other hand, has a great story, great animation and art and imho offers one of the best Adventuregame soundtracks out there.
Oh yeah! BEST. SOUNDTRACK. EVER!!! 
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
If it works like you described, then yes, you could perceive it as a puzzle, but a bad one at the least.
In FOA, the fact that you can choose between fists, wits and team is made clear in such a way that you know what to expect. There are no subtle hints on this in FT, are there?
And then, what is the logic behind this?....I mean, just look what you just wrote….then try to forget you ever played FT. Does that seem like a logical thing to try out? Or even being able to understand that using the fertilizer is the definitive moment where you decide to go for puzzle instead of action? And don’t get me started on the logic of the effectiveness of other weapons if you do choose the action path…and why one weapon defeats the other. It’s sheer nonsense. Plus it’s extremely timing sensitive and I found it even more difficult than a real action game. (sure to be a feat that few AG’s manage to pull off)
In FOA, the fact that you can choose between fists, wits and team is made clear in such a way that you know what to expect. There are no subtle hints on this in FT, are there?
Even on the fists path, you could bypass most of the fights. That’s what I was alluding to. 
And then, what is the logic behind this?....I mean, just look what you just wrote….then try to forget you ever played FT. Does that seem like a logical thing to try out? Or even being able to understand that using the fertilizer is the definitive moment where you decide to go for puzzle instead of action?
Actually, if you have the fertilizer in your inventory, it shows up as one of the possible weapons you can use in the fight. Early on, you probably only have your fists and a wrench otherwise. Makes sense to try it then.
And don’t get me started on the logic of the effectiveness of other weapons if you do choose the action path…and why one weapon defeats the other.
Actually, it’s not about one weapon defeating the other (you could theoretically win with your fists vs. someone with a flail), but about needing less hits to win with better weapons. It should be quite obvious that the chainsaw means a one-hit victory. All other weapons result in back-and-forth fighting.
And vs. the Cavefish, you need something ranged since they insta-kill you with that oil squirt, which means only the two-by-four allows you to hit them while still maintaining some distance.
It’s not my favourite part of the game either, but there is logic in it…
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
I have to confess that I have never played Full Throttle
But I nevertheless have no scruples at all about voting for The Dig!
It is an excellent game with a very strong sci-fi story, that reminds me of such excellent books as both Space Odyssey 2001 and Rama, and I’m generally a big sucker for sci-fi. The Dig is also at least no. 17 on my all time top 10 list!
I’m confident that if I ever did get around to playing FT, I wouldn’t enjoy it nearly as much as The Dig.
And yeah .. I don’t know the full story behind The Dig, but I have never considered it a Bill Tiller game.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
Full Throttle is one of the best Lucas Arts games. The Dig is one of the worst (which is still really good by the way) so I’ll go with FT.
@ Cali, Thanks brother, you always have your own special ways of laying down information.
@ Izno, you will bro (play FT), once the remastered edition is out.
Do you believe i voted for The Dig too, FT throttle is great but the Dig is something else 
and at the last, this match idea was always so intriguing (for a while ‘now’ in my head) due to the fact that its result is totally unpredictable .
DAMN!
this is turning out to be more-unpredictable-than-‘unpredictable’! 
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Remember: the match goes until 4 November 2015 11:59 PM
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