Adventure Gamers - Forums
You are here: Home → Forum Home → Gaming → Adventure → Thread
Post Marker Legend:
-
New posts -
No new posts
Currently online
Adventure Game Scene of the Day - Wednesday, 5 August
Personally I’m not a big fan of the Back to the Future kind of time travel in fiction. Lets face it, it is all very silly, and basically solves all the paradoxes involved in time travel by simply ignoring them, hoping that the viewer/reader/player turn off their thinking cap and don’t ask hard questions like: “How could Marty travel back in time, and prevent his parents from falling in love, thereby preventing his own birth, if he was never born?”
Personally I much prefer fiction with the Twelve Monkeys (causality, classical science) or Thief of Time (non-causality, quantum mechanics) view on time travel and time itself. It not only treats the whole subject more seriously, which I greatly prefer, but it also actually solves all the paradoxes in a perfectly logical way, without any plot-holes big enough to drive an Australian truck train through .. sideways.
Yet whenever time travel is used in fiction it is almost always of the silly mumbo-jumbo type and Day of the Tentacle is no exception.
This however doesn’t change the simple fact, that the silly mumbo-jumbo kind of time travel can be used as a great puzzle mechanics. When it is used right it quite literally adds a 4th dimension to the puzzles, and requires a kind of non-linear thinking that we are not normally used to. Instead of simply solving the problem in front of you, like we normally do both in real life and in adventure games, it gives you the option of changing the whole premise for the problem, or in other words it requires some out-of-the-box-thinking.
Caught in a tree 200 hundred years in the future?
Well you could have someone bring you a ladder or something similar, but why not simply cut down the tree 400 years earlier, or better yet why not talk George Washington into cutting down the three for you 
, and 1..2..3 the tree disappears out of existence and you are free from its grasp.
(Just don’t ask how Laverne to begin with, could get caught in a tree that ceased to exist 400 years earlier)
A small side note: George Washington cutting down a cherry tree, might be some famous event in American history that all US schoolchildren know about, but for the rest of us it has absolutely no meaning, and that is just one example. DotT is in many ways a very USA-centric game, that was clearly made primarily for an American audience, and only secondarily for an international marked, and this is also one of the reasons why you won’t find this game on my personal top x game list, though I still enjoyed playing it.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
Personally I’m not a big fan of the Back to the Future kind of time travel in fiction. Lets face it, it is all very silly, and basically solves all the paradoxes involved in time travel by simply ignoring them, hoping that the viewer/reader/player turn off their thinking cap and don’t ask hard questions like: “How could Marty travel back in time, and prevent his parents from falling in love, thereby preventing his own birth, if he was never born?”
Personally I much prefer fiction with the Twelve Monkeys (causality, classical science) or Thief of Time (non-causality, quantum mechanics) view on time travel and time itself. It not only treats the whole subject more seriously, which I greatly prefer, but it also actually solves all the paradoxes in a perfectly logical way, without any plot-holes big enough to drive an Australian truck train through .. sideways.
Yet whenever time travel is used in fiction it is almost always of the silly mumbo-jumbo type and Day of the Tentacle is no exception.
A common misconception. People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly… timey-wimey… stuff.
(Just don’t ask how Laverne to begin with, could get caught in a tree that ceased to exist 400 years earlier)
That’s what suspension of disbelief is for. It makes sense in context, especially in comedic material… 
A small side note: George Washington cutting down a cherry tree, might be some famous event in American history that all US schoolchildren know about
...and which is in fact based on a myth. George Washington never chopped down a cherry tree in his life.
But it makes a good tale about honesty and integrity, so it stuck. 
The cherry tree chopping got mentioned in dialogue, though, back when it was still a kumquat tree (yeah, that also makes sense in context ), so it might be a US-centric game but this is still a well-clued puzzle, imo. 
Btw, no midweek puzzle logo this time? 
Edit: well, that was added quickly after my post… Are you a ninja?
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Personally I’m not a big fan of the Back to the Future kind of time travel in fiction. Lets face it, it is all very silly, and basically solves all the paradoxes involved in time travel by simply ignoring them, hoping that the viewer/reader/player turn off their thinking cap and don’t ask hard questions like: “How could Marty travel back in time, and prevent his parents from falling in love, thereby preventing his own birth, if he was never born?”
I really hope that you will play TimeQuest one day! I’m still looking for someone who can explain to me the complicated time paradox at the end.
PS: I’d nominate it for a CP if I thought it had a chance of winning.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
Btw, no midweek puzzle logo this time?
Edit: well, that was added quickly after my post… Are you a ninja?
Damn it, I knew I had forgotten something, thanks for reminding me, and Yes I am also know by the name Ninjai the little ninja 
A common misconception. People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly… timey-wimey… stuff.
Hence the “Thief of Time (non-causality, quantum mechanics) view on time travel and time itself” - But despite the wibbly-wobbly… timey-wimey… stuff at least for most of the time, Dr. Who actually uses the “Twelve Monkeys (causality, classical science)” view of time and time travel.
That’s what suspension of disbelief is for. It makes sense in context, especially in comedic material…
Well .. it actually doesn’t .. makes sense that is. If it made sense within the context of the fiction, then there wouldn’t be any need for “suspense of disbelief”.
But yeah, you can get away with stuff like this in comedy, and the other kinds of time view / travel wouldn’t really allow for these kind of puzzles, so I’m not as such criticizing DotT for it, just stating my general opinion on the subject.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I really hope that you will play TimeQuest one day! I’m still looking for someone who can explain to me the complicated time paradox at the end.
PS: I’d nominate it for a CP if I thought it had a chance of winning.
Well, as you know, I’m not a big fan of text adventures, but I am a big fan of sci-fi and timetravel, so perhaps one day.
And if there is anything I have learned from the CP voting, then it is that it is impossible to predict which games has a chance of winning, at least it is impossible to predict for me.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
While I consider DotT one of the most overrated adventures in gaming history (along with Broken Sword and a couple of others), that doesn’t change the fact that I consider the time travel mechanic a great way in introducing a number of exccellent puzzles. Certainly a + in my books from the puzzle perspective.
Time-travel is as nonsensical as a tentacle taking over the world so it fits in the game. Made for some cool puzzles. I wish we get some info on the remaster soon, one of my favorite adventures.
The so-called grandfather paradox is the main problem that arises when the issue of time travel is introduced into a fictional story, not only in Back to the future we see this, but also in countless other films like Terminator (with a lot of inconsistencies). Although parallel universes maybe (if we believe in them) can avoid and explain to some extent such inconsistencies. I’m rambling.
Oh, yes. Dott is fun with good puzzles.
DotT is in many ways a very USA-centric game, that was clearly made primarily for an American audience, and only secondarily for an international marked, and this is also one of the reasons why you won’t find this game on my personal top x game list, though I still enjoyed playing it.
Yeah, same for me.
” I remember. Somebody died. It was me.”
~
DOTT was one of the games that made me love adventure games. I came a little late to the genre (early 90’s unlike some of the fine folks here who played the early Sierra games and even the earlier text adventures when they came out.) It blew me away with its humor, graphics (they were aiming for Chuck Jones Looney Tunes style graphics and I think they nailed it), and brilliant puzzles. Having grown up abroad, I too did not understand the Washington cherry tree puzzle or the whole IRS part (I think my innate fear of the IRS owes a little to DOTT ), but that did not distract at all from enjoying the game.
The game obviously does not take itself seriously, so the whole time travel in that context is fine, just like a classic Road Runner Looney Tunes cartoon, where the road runner can whiz through a painting of a road on a big boulder, whereas the coyote always hits the boulder when he tries it himself. The game is absurd like that (you microwave a hamster, your travelling chambers are glorified toilets, you are stopping a tentacle from taking over the world because he drank sludge), so in that context time travel is fine, and any anomalies should be forgiven I believe.
Originally I preferred SamnMax over DoTT but in time I changed my opinion, though I’d need to do a replay to check whether I still feel the same. DoTT is filled with brilliant puzzles, Laverne is a wonderful female character, the plot is wacky in a great way and the whole concept of tentacles taking over the world and including time travel into the plot… It’s just great stuff.
And I’m all for wibbly wobbly stuff. It doesn’t have to be actual science. And I like when they mix up some mythology to scifi too. I love stories about demons, but I don’t believe in them. I don’t need to believe in the science of science fiction either.
Currently Playing: Dragon Age Origins: Awakening
Recently Played: Red Embrace: Hollywood, Dorfromantik, Heirs & Graces, AI: The Somnium Files, PRICE, Frostpunk, The Shapeshifting Detective (CPT), Disco Elysium, Dream Daddy, Four Last Things, Jenny LeClue - Detectivu, The Signifier
( your travelling chambers are glorified toilets
Still not as ridiculous as some kind of… Hot Tub Time Machine
The so-called grandfather paradox is the main problem that arises when the issue of time travel is introduced into a fictional story, not only in Back to the future we see this, but also in countless other films like Terminator (with a lot of inconsistencies). Although parallel universes maybe (if we believe in them) can avoid and explain to some extent such inconsistencies. I’m rambling.
Parallel universes is a third way, though not my favourite, to solve the paradoxes of time travel, and there are probably even more than those three solutions. I just haven’t heard of them or have forgotten all about them again.
(And there is nothing wrong with a bit of rambling, in fact part of the reason I selected this puzzle, was so I could ramble about time travel )
And I’m all for wibbly wobbly stuff. It doesn’t have to be actual science. And I like when they mix up some mythology to scifi too. I love stories about demons, but I don’t believe in them. I don’t need to believe in the science of science fiction either.
[ramble]
It’s not really so much about the science or realism, it is more about being plausible or believable. There is that notion that just because it is sci-fi then it doesn’t matter how implausible, inconsistent, breaking it’s own rules, nonsensical or plot hole ridden the thing is, because people are used to sci-fi that really doesn’t make any sense at all. But I don’t buy that, I believe that sci-fi has to live up to the same standard as all other kind of fictions, and this also means that any fiction that uses time travel, has to have some kind of solution to the paradoxes.
Ironically, despite all the wibbly wobbly and far fetched stuff in Dr. Who, it is actually fairly good in this respect. In is fairly consistent without any major plot holes, and it does offer (somewhat) believable explanations to deal with the time paradoxes.
[/ramble]
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
And I’m all for wibbly wobbly stuff. It doesn’t have to be actual science. And I like when they mix up some mythology to scifi too. I love stories about demons, but I don’t believe in them. I don’t need to believe in the science of science fiction either.
[ramble]
It’s not really so much about the science or realism, it is more about being plausible or believable. There is that notion that just because it is sci-fi then it doesn’t matter how implausible, inconsistent, breaking it’s own rules, nonsensical or plot hole ridden the thing is, because people are used to sci-fi that really doesn’t make any sense at all. But I don’t buy that, I believe that sci-fi has to live up to the same standard as all other kind of fictions, and this also means that any fiction that uses time travel, has to have some kind of solution to the paradoxes.Ironically, despite all the wibbly wobbly and far fetched stuff in Dr. Who, it is actually fairly good in this respect. In is fairly consistent without any major plot holes, and it does offer (somewhat) believable explanations to deal with the time paradoxes.
[/ramble]
Well yes, I agree that sometimes things don’t make sense even in their own universe and then it could become an issue to me too, who isn’t so strict about everything being completely consistent, I live more for the atmosphere of things. But when it’s something as wacky as DoTT, the thing does actually make sense and I at least don’t remember DoTT being inconsistent. It’s the same thing with the illogical puzzles. Some people whine that DoTT and SamnMax have illogical puzzles but I disagree, they totally make sense in the setting. In the same way Back to the Future can have the silliest “science” behind it, when a serious drama has to at least try to keep it believable.
Basically what I’m saying is that people often give a lot of unnecessary criticism to products of sci-fi, fantasy, surrealism or anything that stretches the imagination. And often they demand everything to be explained. Not all unexplained things are plotholes.
But then again some stories just don’t make sense at all.
Currently Playing: Dragon Age Origins: Awakening
Recently Played: Red Embrace: Hollywood, Dorfromantik, Heirs & Graces, AI: The Somnium Files, PRICE, Frostpunk, The Shapeshifting Detective (CPT), Disco Elysium, Dream Daddy, Four Last Things, Jenny LeClue - Detectivu, The Signifier
Most of the time, if the writer/director/developer is confident in his approach and handles the material well, then I don’t mind a few time paradoxes. I don’t even mind if they just handwave them with a “don’t think about it too much” (like they did in Looper, for instance). As long as there’s some internal consistency, I’ll happily look past it.
If they suddenly break their own system (like the tree “spontaneously” appearing in The Lake House), then that’s a problem, but if they’re otherwise consistent? Meh.
That said, I do admit that I prefer the fixed timeline approach (like The Terminator (the first one) and Twelve Monkeys) over the parallel universe one, and that I prefer that one over the timey-wimey ball, but you gotta admit that it’s all handled pretty well in both Day of the Tentacle and the Back to the Future films (especially the awesome first one).
As an aside, if you haven’t already seen it, you might be interested in the movie Primer. It has an interesting take on time travel. Be warned, though, it’s a very difficult movie, and you’ll probably need to watch it twice AND take a look at this spoilery timeline to fully get it.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Yeah I lost track of the timelines when watching Primer. Should watch it again.
What do people think about chicken or the egg type of things like Predestination? It was a decent movie too though the twists were rather predictable.
I’m really into fatality in stories anyway, so I also love 12 Monkeys and the like.
Currently Playing: Dragon Age Origins: Awakening
Recently Played: Red Embrace: Hollywood, Dorfromantik, Heirs & Graces, AI: The Somnium Files, PRICE, Frostpunk, The Shapeshifting Detective (CPT), Disco Elysium, Dream Daddy, Four Last Things, Jenny LeClue - Detectivu, The Signifier
I’m really into fatality in stories anyway, so I also love 12 Monkeys and the like.
Totally. Bad endings often make a far bigger impact than good ones. Even if it’s just the writers being evil (anybody watch the series The Outer Limits in the 90s? ).
I’m also a fan of the self-fulfilling prophecies where trying to prevent the disaster causes it to happen. Food for thought.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
You are here: Home → Forum Home → Gaming → Adventure → Thread
