[rlpw]

Strange. I'm used to people being able to deny, prove, or advocate the holocaust. Doesn't make it right, but they better be able to handle the verbal retribution.
And as for our Houses of Congress I think there should be a lot more mud slinging. Would make C-Span a lot more interesting.
And you can rant if you want to, that's what we're here for.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Originally Posted by tsa

Bloggie-san!

Mark Rutte, had the brilliant idea to propose an expansion of our right to free speach, so that for instance denying the holocaust is not punishable anymore.

You think people should be punished for denying the holocaust? Come on its just an opinion, it is by no means endangering to people yet its okay to show so much propaganda and misleading information in our society to keep people obedient. David Irving as an example is not a dangerous person.. yet we keep a lot of crimical offenders from other countries safe in our countries with probably pillows attached under their arms.

Originally Posted by tsa

The idea Rutte had with his proposition is that there should be a law that made it difficult for people to react to insults thrown at them by people who have different opinions than them, and thus prevent the murders of people like Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn. But he forgets that Van Gogh and Fortuyn were killed because they vented their opinions in very scrupulous terms. Von Gogh called muslims 'goat fuckers,' for instance.

Sorry about ranting. I will go away now.

I think its a bit simple to come to the conclusion that were killed because of their scrupulous terms. Many groups thrive on their aggression, and would easily use anything towards them with death threats. People get death threats from extreme groups for just speaking their opinion without saying goat fuckers.

Doesn't it say anything when you go as far as giving death threats? even without killing. It's like people have to be careful with their mouths incase they can get killed! to please certain ridiculous groups who get way too much freedom in western countries. I am not talking particularly of *Muslims* as a whole group as Muslims are different world wide, the same with Christians. But certain groups who immigrated to our welfare systems have been reluctant in adapting to our culture, used excuses and gotten away with a lot of things especially their racism. I don't support those hypocritic idiotic populist parties ,but it has to stop that people have to kneel to death threats and be afraid of freedom of speech. Anyone can be a racist yet only western/caucasians get prosecuted due to their skin colour, its not like the racism from the other groups are invisible, they are usually those who say out loud racist remarks and call western women whores and all.

I don't want more European countries to become as ridiculous as Austria laws. (jailtime for denying holocaust!, or extremly strict punishment for a lot of activists who may have not damaged much for corporatists that do inhumane things)

[tsa]

Originally Posted by MikeLXXXVIII

You think people should be punished for denying the holocaust?

Of course not, but people here seem to think the right of free speech is the same as a right to insult.

I think its a bit simple to come to the conclusion that were killed because of their scrupulous terms. Many groups thrive on their aggression, and would easily use anything towards them with death threats. People get death threats from extreme groups for just speaking their opinion without saying goat fuckers.

You're right, but calling people 'goat fuckers' and then saying you can do that because of free speech is naive and arrogant. Of course the person who killed him is an utter nutcase whi deserves his lifelong jail sentence. What I tried, and utterly failed, to get across is the fatc that people and even politicians here in the Netherlands seem to think that they can just say anything to anybody and get away with it in the name of 'free speech.' A few years ago we were already called the rudest people in the world because we are very direct and we say what we think, be now we are getting even worse because we think it's normal to fling insults at each other.

Doesn't it say anything when you go as far as giving death threats? even without killing. It's like people have to be careful with their mouths incase they can get killed! to please certain ridiculous groups who get way too much freedom in western countries. I am not talking particularly of *Muslims* as a whole group as Muslims are different world wide, the same with Christians. But certain groups who immigrated to our welfare systems have been reluctant in adapting to our culture, used excuses and gotten away with a lot of things especially their racism. I don't support those hypocritic idiotic populist parties ,but it has to stop that people have to kneel to death threats and be afraid of freedom of speech. Anyone can be a racist yet only western/caucasians get prosecuted due to their skin colour, its not like the racism from the other groups are invisible, they are usually those who say out loud racist remarks and call western women whores and all.

That's a whole different discussion, but yeah it looks weird when you see people with cars and mobile phones and unemployment incomes fulminate against the West. If they think we are so bad, why don't they move to a place where it is fun for them?

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Sorry for the reaction Tsa, I guess maybe I was a bit overboard there as I wasn't sure of your stance thats why I jumped.

I do agree that there is a difference with insulting and free speech. Especially with the most vicious intentions intended to hurt. Like when discussing comedy, in terms of making fun and ridiculing. I do believe some things you shouldn't make fun of which is just plain vicious. *How people are born, genocide, murders, disabilities, weight*

Just as little off topic, I have been told I have a dutch level tone! *from a Dutch person*
as I talk very loud!

*more off topic*
I am so inlove with a autoharp guys, half an hour before I wanted to buy a banjo ukulele but now the autoharp stole my heart..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaWAyhUYEg
just listen to that instrument!

My new future girlfriend!

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by MikeLXXXVIII

Anyone can be a racist yet only western/caucasians get prosecuted due to their skin colour, its not like the racism from the other groups are invisible, they are usually those who say out loud racist remarks and call western women whores and all.

I suggest reading up on white privilege.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Out of curiousity Squinky, in what context did you show me this?

I tried to read that up, but to me it didn't sum up that it can go both ways. More the ignorance of denying the still existing privileges that are there for "white" people and males.
From my understanding but I guess maybe I didn't fully understand that text. It does raise important questions but it wasn't anything suprising personally.

If you could elaborate yourself as I might have misunderstood the "point" that was to be made. I would love to discuss the male privilege but also female ones. The same with the privilege of certain groups for certain situations.

[rlpw]

Well, Ms McIntosh's list mostly read like the rights all Americans have if they choose to use them. The rest are implied racists remarks that, to me, are just meant to stir up anger and self loathing. It shows that her primary ideology is to stereotype the people she is accusing of stereotyping. I am an individual that makes up my own mind about people on an individual basis.
As for the rest, she failed to take into account that places like the US and most European countries are ruled on a majority and as such will be dominated by the dominant ethnic group. If that group is willing to give the minorities rights they are under no fundamental obligation to do so. If you do not believe me ask the Asians who lived during WW2 or the Muslim minority that is in the Americas now. While this does sound cruel to a lot of people the reverse is far worse. Oppressed majorities are far worse. take for instance Chinaand South Africa. I know this plays into the Feminist Oppressed Majority concept but the plain and simple fact is if it is true then it is a portion of the majority itself that is oppressing it.
The interesting thing about this is that, if in all honesty, white males were in complete dominant control of the society then all women would be married off to whom their fathers picked and killed if they dishonored him. Hmmm.. where have we heard that one before.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by rlpw

The interesting thing about this is that, if in all honesty, white males were in complete dominant control of the society then all women would be married off to whom their fathers picked and killed if they dishonored him. Hmmm.. where have we heard that one before.

That reminds me of a tragic story I blogged about...

domestic atrocity | a space alien (embedded Associated Press video)

Sandeela was simply taking advantage of all her rights as an American citizen, earning a wage by working at Walmart and just generally trying to get on with her life. Seeking divorce from an arranged marriage was simply one of those American rights. She was killed for it. By her own father.

This is what infuriates me about a number of people who emigrate to other countries to seek a better life, their stupidity and failure to actively adapt, assimilate, and most importantly, respect the laws and rights they would now enjoy in their new home. Religion may have played a part in this tragedy, but as well it could be any other cultural and societal influence that in its place of origin may not be seen as devious. But here in the U.S., it is our laws, our citizens' rights, your obligation and duty to respect it as others from all different backgrounds must respect yours.

And the worst you can do is claim to not know anything about the new laws. It is your responsibility living in your new country to learn and understand its laws, its culture, its society. It is your responsibility to get to know your neighbours and associates, learn from them, be respectful to them, be accepting or at least tolerant that their ways may differ from yours. And that includes your own family members who may be doing a better job at it than you. Do not ever use your traditions as an excuse to cling to your old ways. Ignorance and insularity are not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Well if that was just mostly her point, I a disagree with it.

Also the situation is a bit different for different ethnic groups in different countries. I also think the word racist is overused and people forget etnocentricm. A lot of groups are selective on who they discriminate, like due to the persons culture and not their colour necessary.

I keep seeing ways where men are discriminated, it is usually ridiculed when spoken of such. It is getting better in certain countries but in terms of parenting men still lack a lot of rights. I did read a suprising article recently about children being kidnapped by the other parent.

The majority who kidnap children in this case are infact women, *to my suprise* and by reading the stories, the women were most of the time trusted upon due to being the mothers. The consequence of that being that the fathers were not taken serious since they were simply not the childs mother. This raises an important question ,because how come does it make you automatically a good mother just because you gave birth to a child?. There are both good and bad parents, its not limited to men. If you allow that type of attitude to dominant it will be used to discriminate the other group. It was very sad to read about this father who keeps trying to get his soon back after 8 years, but without any luck. The first time when he put the police and court of this country against the woman who kidnaped their son, she responded by accusing him of incest. Despite the kidnapping allegations the police went to arrest him instead. He is still trying to get his son back even to this day.

Men also struggle with expetations in terms of both mental and physical strength. People make it out as only women are burdened with expectations. I am very against the notion of just looking at one of the genders. Which is exacly what men have done through all history not considering the women in history. Women also do supress themselves, the same with men too. It is not only mens job to reconstruct gender roles and privileges.

Another issue is in terms of domestic violence. There is a lack of shelter center for men who are being abused. Usually there might exist some helplines ,but no place where men can "safely" go for shelter. Or how about men being raped?
At the crisis shelters for women men aren't allowed to work there as it might scare the women there. However if they did that at a mens shelter placewhere women were not allowed to work there, there would be an uprising.
Also the quotas they use in Scandinavia to fill women forcely into jobs is also something that backfires, and discriminates. It is called positive discrimination, so the term is positive . Discrimination is still discrimination no matter what!.
The point is that people deny that it discriminates! even if it can contribute to something greater, discrimination is still there.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by MikeLXXXVIII

*more off topic*
I am so inlove with a autoharp guys, half an hour before I wanted to buy a banjo ukulele but now the autoharp stole my heart..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RaWAyhUYEg
just listen to that instrument!

My new future girlfriend!

Autoharp by Hooverphonic. Now you know why my laptop is called Geike.

[rlpw]

what about the hammer dulcimer?!?!?! It's a beautiful instrument.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by rlpw

what about the hammer dulcimer?!?!?! It's a beautiful instrument.

Yes it is! I've never seen such a thing before. It sounds cool too.

[rlpw]

Also there is the Mountain or 'bluegrass' dulcimer

[Lee in Limbo]

Autoharp and Hammer Dulcimer are both beautiful instruments. I skipped to another Dizzi piece on the medieval hammer dulcimer and thought she sounded just fantastic. Some day I have to get my hands on these instruments. Not before I have space for a real studio, though. There just isn't room here now, even if I had the money for them. Plus, my wife will probably murder me in my sleep if I bring another musical instrument into the house that doesn't get played enough.

[rlpw]

Dear Blog,
This is my down day. Me and my mother share the same birthday and this is the third year I celebrate it without her. As a lot of you know she died from cancer a few years back when I was in KY with her and was there when she passed. I was born on her 16th birthday so it was more almost like having a sibling and mother at the same time. Some things happened when I was that she was always trying to make up to me for. She made a few bad choices with men and I payed the price, my father abandoned me cause my mother run him off for trying to have sex with her right after having me. My next step father wound up being a drunk womanizer. Her last husband beat me terribly until he went to prison and mended his ways. One of the saddest things I have ever seen was him begging for my forgiveness. He loved my mother more than I have ever seen any man love someone except in the movies. In fact he only lasted about 1 year without her before they laid him down beside her. He was her Johnny Cash.
Well, I got my cry out and feel a lot better now. The thing is the day is so empty when you shared it with someone so long. thanks for listening.
Paul

[tsa]

That is so sad Paul, I got tears in my eyes. You must have had a very difficult youth. Did you forgive your last step father?

Still a happy birthday to you!

[Fantasysci5]

Originally Posted by rlpw

Dear Blog,
This is my down day. Me and my mother share the same birthday and this is the third year I celebrate it without her. As a lot of you know she died from cancer a few years back when I was in KY with her and was there when she passed. I was born on her 16th birthday so it was more almost like having a sibling and mother at the same time. Some things happened when I was that she was always trying to make up to me for. She made a few bad choices with men and I payed the price, my father abandoned me cause my mother run him off for trying to have sex with her right after having me. My next step father wound up being a drunk womanizer. Her last husband beat me terribly until he went to prison and mended his ways. One of the saddest things I have ever seen was him begging for my forgiveness. He loved my mother more than I have ever seen any man love someone except in the movies. In fact he only lasted about 1 year without her before they laid him down beside her. He was her Johnny Cash.
Well, I got my cry out and feel a lot better now. The thing is the day is so empty when you shared it with someone so long. thanks for listening.
Paul

I am so sorry, Paul. It sounds really rough, but I do hope you can find a way to enjoy your birthday, even only somewhat. We all love you very much. *hugs*

[rlpw]

I didn't mean for you guys to feel sorry for me, I was only pointing out whet me and my mother went through together. It was honestly a different time and, in tsa's case, an entirely different world than he was raised in. Though your thoughts are entirely appreciated.

[MikeLXXXVIII]

Yeah I agree that is a pretty rough past :'(, and has to be hard on celebriting birthday when your mother isn't around. How I dread for such a day but we don't have those close to us around us anymore. Sorry don't mean to seem as if I am rubbing things or reminding of such. But it did remind me of some things I should be aware of before things are too late. As I do have a very close relationship with my mother, and my sister.

Whats important is that you got to go through so many difficulties and had each other in the end. And cherish those great memories!

Good luck with the day , hopefully there are some highlights to get you through.
How about investing in a hammer dulcimer? as you mentioned before! Well actually I find instruments very soothing and meditating when feeling down.

Personally a Hammer Dulcimer would be a bit intimidating to me and the sound is a bit too sharp for my taste. So I think id go with a harp or autoharp hoho.

[Jelena]

Hugs to you forum-hubby!