[eriq]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Okay, then be her.

okay. POOF! I'm her.

[Squinky]

[dekaneas297]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

You can be as offended by or disappointed in the presentation of this game as you like, but it's hard to argue that it's not true to Mata Hari

I totally agree with you. Are we obliged to alter the appearance and style of a historic person in order to "present" an acceptable and more convenient one? This sounds like Hollywood to me.

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

Mata Hari was not some oriental courtesan. She was a Dutch circus artist turned hooker, and all the exoticism and glamor was completely fake in the first place. Arguably, the depiction of her as some Vegas dancer is as authentic as it gets

I can't agree more. For me that is the only mistake there.

Finally, do you really think that a 16 year old will buy the game because of that picture on the cover? I doubt it. We are talking about a game's cover, not a Playboy's or Penthouse's.

[jp-30]

Originally Posted by dekaneas297

Are we obliged to alter the appearance and style of a historic person in order to "present" an acceptable and more convenient one? This sounds like Hollywood to me.

Uh, the box image has significantly altered the appearance and style of a historic person and 'Hollywood-ized' her.

That's sort-of the point...

[AndreaDraco83]

The cover

The historical person.

Which one is Hollywood-ized?

[dekaneas297]

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

The cover

The historical person.

Which one is Hollywood-ized?

Maybe I was misunderstood.
I am in favour of the "true" appearance of Mata Hari in the game, whichever it is.
I am against the Hollywoodized image of her in both directions (neither too puritan nor slutty) which alters her true appearance.

[jp-30]

This does conflict somewhat with your previous post.

[dekaneas297]

Originally Posted by jp-30

This does conflict somewhat with your previous post.

No it does not

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

The cover

The historical person.

Which one is Hollywood-ized?

In what respect? As seen in the pictures jp-30 posted, the outfit and pose are not too far off the real person. They made her a bit slimmer, and the face and hair are quite different. Is that really all you're complaining about?

[AndreaDraco83]

I was responding to Dekaneas and his statement:

Are we obliged to alter the appearance and style of a historic person in order to "present" an acceptable and more convenient one? This sounds like Hollywood to me.

In my personal opinion, the cover represents a Hollywood-ized version of Mata Hari (more gorgeous, modern canon of beauty, fan-service), so no: I'm not complaining about the non-resemblance of faces.

[Henke]

First of all, it's a game, so it doesn't necessarily have much to do with reality. Despite the fact that it's based on a real person.

It's the same for male characters. The thing that has been neglected in the past is the fact that woman in games (and films too for that matter) have only had one purpose, to look sexy (or something similair). But now they can be main characters in an actionbased story. So that problem is really over now.

The rumors regarding Mata Hari is that she was a beutiful woman that used her good looks in a way that nobody thought woman were capabale of at the time. That fact makes this discussion even funnier. The history of Mata Hari should teach us not to judge a person by its' gender and appearance.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Henke

The thing that has been neglected in the past is the fact that woman in games (and films too for that matter) have only had one purpose, to look sexy (or something similair). But now they can be main characters in an actionbased story. So that problem is really over now.

OMG! Is it over? Really? When did this happen? How could I have possibly missed this exciting new development? Tell me! TELL ME!

P.S. Duke Nukem needs to be more naked... and lose the steroid-ridden look.

[Henke]

Originally Posted by Squinky

OMG! Is it over? Really? When did this happen? How could I have possibly missed this exciting new development? Tell me! TELL ME!

P.S. Duke Nukem needs to be more naked... and lose the steroid-ridden look.

It's 2008, have you missed the last 40 years? Believe me, it's over. I think you're looking for a problem where there really isn't one. If you can't get a job solely based on the fact that you're a woman then that's a REAL problem (which shouldn't exist in this day and age).

You mean Duke would look more like Mata Hari if he was more naked and wouldn't be pumped with steroids? Would that really make a difference for better or worse?

[dtp Chris]

Ok, this is one of the rare occasions where I actually feel like I have to comment:

1. The trailer is in black & white because movies at the time of Mata Hari were in black & white, but the game is of course fully coloured.

2. The box art on amazon is the European box art. To make Mata Hari a success, we decided to appeal for an as broad audience - also for impulse buyers at the P.O.S. - as possible.

3. The US cover might be totally different once the game is signed by an US publisher (which is close, but not yet there), since restrictions against nudity in public are much stricter than in Europe.

4. I hope, and honestly believe, that no one of you does not buy the game because he/she doesn't like the cover.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by dtp Chris

2. The box art on amazon is the European box art. To make Mata Hari a success, we decided to appeal for an as broad audience - also for impulse buyers at the P.O.S. - as possible.

As I argued in the blog post I linked to earlier, I believe that with this kind of advertising, you are limiting your audience rather than broadening it. As a woman, if I saw the cover of this game and didn't know anything about it, I'd assume that looking at nearly naked ladies was a core element of the game, and would therefore feel uncomfortable buying it. And judging by the demographics of these forums, a lot of women play adventure games, so you'd essentially be excluding a large chunk your audience.

Then again, I'm Canadian, so perhaps I'm just a victim of the so-called American prudishness epidemic. Any European women want to confirm or disprove my thoughts?

[tsa]

I always find it strange that looking at naked women is considered very disturbing in America, but watching some superhero spread death and destruction in ridiculous amounts apparently is not.

[misslilo]

Well, haven't exactly made up my mind yet - from denmark here.

I knew of the game before I saw the cover and thought it was interesting.
Was actually prepared to buy the game already as soon as it comes out.

But I definitely don't like the cover - and I think, that had I not read about the game, I wouldn't buy it just from the look of the cover.

I'm european yes, and as such not so strict about nudity, but looking just at the cover is too much even for me. (She looks like a striptease dancer...!)

That being said, I still think the game looks interesting and am still considering buying it.
I just hope she won't be portrayed like this in-game.

[tsa]

I guess she will in some scenes. It was part of her job.

[dekaneas297]

Originally Posted by Henke

First of all, it's a game, so it doesn't necessarily have much to do with reality. Despite the fact that it's based on a real person

You are using the same argument that film companies use. "It's just a movie. It's not reality". Well, you are wrong. When you use historic persons in a movie/game/novel you HAVE to give the true portrait of them. Eitherwise it's forgery.

Originally Posted by Squinky

As a woman, if I saw the cover of this game and didn't know anything about it, I'd assume that looking at nearly naked ladies was a core element of the game, and would therefore feel uncomfortable buying it.

I guess when you see half naked models in fashion shows, tv ads, magazine ads, you don't buy the clothes, shoes, face/body creams, fragrances etc they advertise

Overall don't you think there is a little hypocrisy over the subject?
A half naked woman is on the cover of a game and some people behave like they have never seen something like that before.
From my point of view, the true historic appearance of Mata Hari is of greater importance

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by dekaneas297

I guess when you see half naked models in fashion shows, tv ads, magazine ads, you don't buy the clothes, shoes, face/body creams, fragrances etc they advertise

As a matter of fact, I happen to loathe such advertisements, and am more than willing to argue that they're just as sexist, if not moreso. Ubiquity is no excuse to continue being sexist if you can avoid it, however.

Originally Posted by tsa

I always find it strange that looking at naked women is considered very disturbing in America, but watching some superhero spread death and destruction in ridiculous amounts apparently is not.

No, I'm not a fan of death and destruction either. Must be a Canadian thing.