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CharophyceanTheTMD

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The best option to extend an ag length..

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Why “D” of course. One of the best games on the system.

In 1994 went from the Amiga to the 3DO due to the high quality games on the 3DO like this one.

Still have and play my 3DO to this day.

Heart

     

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I enjoy playing adventure games on my Alienware M17 r4 and my Nintendo Switch OLED.

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Thanks I’ve never actually played those games but seems interesting. It’s going on my list…

     

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The best option to extend an ag length..

“Don’t.”

     
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WitchOfDoubt - 21 April 2015 10:49 AM

The best option to extend an ag length..

“Don’t.”

That calls for a ‘w00t’!

     

The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka

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This conversation reminds me of two things.

First, I was once Advertising Manager for Heath Company, the manufacturer of build it yourself televisions and other electronic items. They are no longer in business. The primary reason for failure was two-fold. The first was obvious. It was hard to sell a color TV kit for $1800 when you could buy one that was plug in ready, out of the box, for $1000. The second reason it went out of business was that it failed miserably to meet the need of “Instant Gratification!” When people thought they needed a personal computer, they thought they needed it NOW! Not some time in the future when they finished building it.

The second thing this reminds me of is the reason so many horse-racing tracks in the US are borderline going out of business. Again, instant gratification. When you lose a $50 bet at the track, you must wait at least 25 minutes before you have the opportunity to win that money back. When you lose $50 at a casino, the opportunity to win that money back is almost instantaneous.

How does this relate to Adventure Games and their length? Players want to be able to start playing a game and finish it before they die! The 60-hour game became the 40-hour game, which became the 20-hour game, which became the episodic 4-hour game. And some of that begat the 6-hour casual adventure-lite game.

Our insatiable desire for instant gratification means that there is no “best option” for extending adventure game length.

     

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rtrooney - 21 April 2015 07:46 PM

Our insatiable desire for instant gratification means that there is no “best option” for extending adventure game length.

If i can claim that i understood the point you’re aiming to, rtrooney, i can say that (by that understanding) AGing is not supposed to give an instant gratification after the ‘whole’ experience is done; and if, it doesn’t come after finishing the game, but it appears every once and while, with each new achievement and progress.

What makes long games more enjoyable and needed IMO, is not the idea of more of a product to the quantity of the money payed for it IMHO, but for (i guess) the immersion that extend on days (maybe weeks) of the journey. There are several stops within adventure games, that create an instant in-nostalgia (feeling, i would say) to each of any adventure game played, that makes it more valuable by each and every day spent with, and whether days or weeks (but hardly found within only hours of playing through one journey); the familiarity with the atmosphere , the music, the hero, and the characters..etc, all those expand the journey’s enjoyment through extending it. I know that ‘the word extending’ might easily sound/suggest more like being pushed than neutral, as it hints (might) directly, that its added after concepts are made and done, but with the current scene situation, if being taking into consideration from the start (of the development) it wouldn’t feel that way (pushed in).. i guess.

—————————————————————————————-
I know that its (maybe nice) coincidence, this thread and the other ‘evolve’ thread, are being kinda similar, and also being disapproved (the idea) by most of the posters/players here, even to myself, i didn’t (or precisely i ‘do not’) like evolving adventure games, and i agree with what Dag had said there (which had sounded to me like, since ‘97, evaluation had been misused, and instead of taking what the genre had offered until that year, and work on them more and more with the giving technologies, ‘they’ took a wild drift, away).  Like when you look at Sierra history of evolving, itself, you see they had not made it but three (or four if one thing considered) times ‘only’, through their two (long-fruitful) decades of giving adventure games, and if each game had been given in a different outlook/output than its predecessors, it would had have been a destructive tool toward the company; for example when you take/use/play/accept/enjoy sierra AGI interpreter for some games, into a certain period of your life, and with many different games created by it/the-same-way, makes (easily) other games using the same technology more acceptable, and enjoyable, due the previous experiences of satisfaction ... so anyone (by logic) should not need to take a wild drift, when what is used is already winning… 

Edit: added a line to separate two different posts (in content and subject) as it should had been added from start, to keep out confusion .

     
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I won’t disagree with much of what you said. But the title of the thread is “Best Options for Extending Adventure Games” not “...Evolving Adventure Games.”

Those are, at least to me, two entirely different concepts.  I think I was addressing the former while you seem to be addressing the latter. We’re not talking at cross purposes. We’re just talking about different things.

     

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you are right, i kinda edited me post for that, thanks

     
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I was actually thinking about this a while ago. E.g. if you want to make a classic-inspired game (Lucas, etc), you will inevitably have the player in the position of being stumped and starting to combine everything with everything in case something clicks. So, why not reward that, instead of trying to avoid it? Have the main character NOT spout the same “No, that doesn’t make any sense” line and make it into personalized lines for each combination, like little rewards even though they don’t really advance gameplay. Exploration SHOULD be rewarded in any game, and I think that’s especially viable in an AG.

     
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rtrooney - 21 April 2015 07:46 PM

Our insatiable desire for instant gratification means that there is no “best option” for extending adventure game length.

Best option is still(my last point) consistent quality and tempo throughout the campaign.
The reason why UC2 worked against UC3, the pacing of everything is carefully planned, and each new area beats the previous one.

AdvGame with new areas, new characters, new puzzles can work like charm as long as quality is there.
It should compel you, make you make the game priority, its should make the gamer think,
Man its worth my time and investment.

Same Bloddborne example, you keep finding new areas, it keeps your level of interest.
And budget wasn’t as high as many AAAs before or after it, so its not even budget, Bloodborne has Artdirection not best technical graphics.

And thats polar opposite to mundane linear horse race or inanimate objects of business.

Here in games world keep changing and if you change them with physical or cerebral
involvement all the better, as long as Devs know how to keep the involvement interesting.


I gave BB example because it Niche hardcore genre, maybe more or less niche still niche. Fighters also struggle big time, one fighter per year, that bad output.
But Capcom dont fund them, Sony fund them SFV.
M$ fund them , (KI) halfheartedly with F2p model.
WB funded it , but with quality input, MKX proved to be way successful.
And its a 60$ game, a fighting game, niche genre, it keeps you busy for hours.
It packs content, and quality punch.

Point being, we need MKX , Bloodborne of our niche genre too.


Had it not been for Lucas or Sierra support, we would have been deprived of best AG experiences.
Those games worked because of quality input.
And GrimFandango is a long game, atleast than Cave or BrokenAGe.
So short games because attention span doesn’t cut it.

Quality triumphs all.

     
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I know we’re going on a little tangent, but I agree - and Bloodborne does another time-extending thing that’s either a curse or a blessing, depending on the player. Unless you have previous Souls experience, you will fail and die over and over again, but if you learn from your mistakes, study enemies etc. you will move on. Otherwise, the game is prolongued by the player killing the same re-spawning enemies over and over again. In other words, both good and bad prolongued gameplay within the same game, and you get either one or the other depending on whether you want to adapt and learn how to Bloodborne, or you just slack it (and are thus indirectly punished like Sisyphus). Great game design. Unfortunately, not very appliable to adventure games Smile

     
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..madsoul, you need a to escort a guide to your posts abbreviations, from now on Tongue

     
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Mr Underhill - 23 April 2015 05:03 PM

I know we’re going on a little tangent, but I agree - and Bloodborne does another time-extending thing that’s either a curse or a blessing, depending on the player. Unless you have previous Souls experience, you will fail and die over and over again, but if you learn from your mistakes, study enemies etc. you will move on. Otherwise, the game is prolongued by the player killing the same re-spawning enemies over and over again. In other words, both good and bad prolongued gameplay within the same game, and you get either one or the other depending on whether you want to adapt and learn how to Bloodborne, or you just slack it (and are thus indirectly punished like Sisyphus). Great game design. Unfortunately, not very appliable to adventure games Smile

You missed the point, the replays and respawns are part of leveling up , crucial to
get souls and leveling up, its RPG mechanic. I used the example to prove how other genres, NICHE genres handling their specific mechanics to get acclaim and sales with so not mind blowing AAA budget.

In other words, you dont need to die in AG again and again, just replace the combat in
Bloodborne with cerebral puzzles, each new puzzle interesting than last.
Or how about Bloodborne+Witness+ Talos???
And replace enemies with interesting NPCs to chat and even puzzles surrounding their lives in Lovecraftian world. Smile
Infact with interesting characters, its easy to prolong adventure game.
And keep the exploration aspect of Bloodborne, opening new areas, new NPCs, changing
vast world into lovecrafitan horror gradually.

Sound cool innit??

Advie - 23 April 2015 05:18 PM

..madsoul, you need a to escort a guide to your posts abbreviations, from now on Tongue

Advie - 23 April 2015 03:45 PM

AGing is not supposed to give an instant gratification after the ‘whole’ experience is done

So is it aging as in getting old or adventure gaming.
Grin

     
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nomadsoul - 23 April 2015 07:22 PM

Sound cool innit??

Advie - 23 April 2015 05:18 PM

..madsoul, you need a to escort a guide to your posts abbreviations, from now on Tongue

Advie - 23 April 2015 03:45 PM

AGing is not supposed to give an instant gratification after the ‘whole’ experience is done

So is it aging as in getting old or adventure gaming.
Grin

NAILED IT!
now i know what is really wrong with me Grin

     
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Oh, alright, I re-read what you wrote and got it now. I’ve just been on such a Bloodborne high lately that it’s hard to get my feet back on the more formulaic AG ground Tongue

     

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