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Mystery Game X - Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, 20th Anniversary Edition

Total Posts: 182

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I think it’s kind of ironic how many of those remakes seem dated already. This could have come out 10 years ago.
I guess for a low budget production it’s nice enough and the trailer is better than expected. The motion capture animations do help, too. 
Who knows, maybe it will indeed attract new fans who dislike pixel graphics, but the WOW! factor is missing completely for me as well. So I’m going to give this one a miss.

Gabriel still looks weird. I think I already compared him to Prince Charming from Shrek.

     

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I can’t say I have a huge amount of complaints, but I have to say… what happened to Gabriel’s face? 20 years later and he’s looking pretty damn young. (obviously I know it’s not 20 years later). Gabriel in the original just had more character, looks-wise. He looked older, more mature and definitely better looking with better hair. I mean come on, the real Gabriel wouldn’t been seen dead with hair like that. SORT his beautiful wavy locks out! I guess his hair-do is appropriate for modern times (maybe he discovered hair straighteners). Also the portraits during dialogs need to be sorted, again it looks so yucky and naff. The originals black background looked nicer imo.

     

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Lambonius - 19 August 2014 10:00 PM
Venkman - 19 August 2014 09:54 PM

Ideally 3D because we already have a 2D GK1. Most of the environments are not that vast and could be translated to 3D pretty well without a lot of the silly strawman problems that 2D stalwarts like to bring up.

What would the interface be?  How would you preserve the general experience of the original game and transition it into a fully 3D world without fixed camera angles?

Should I even bother asking how one would do it in a way that is financially feasible?

I called you a name because you are clearly not actually curious about these things. No matter what the answer is, you will find a reason to dismiss it. Your “Should I even bother asking…” indicates that you are only interested in being contentious and are not interested in any thought experiment that involves GK being in 3D.

This isn’t rocket science. It should not be difficult for a person who has played adventure games and who has played 3D games to be able to conceptualize how the two might be merged together in a way better than GK3 did it. You’re making it like it’s an insurmountable problem which is absurd.

I played Sam & Max S3 on PS3. The game is already 3D, but mostly only shows 3 walls. Just add the 4th wall and give it a controllable camera (in the manner of most modern 3D games, not in the manner of GK3). IIRC, it had direct control of Sam and then you sort of flipped through all available “hot spots” in a room using some other buttons. So there’s just one potential example (JUST ONE POTENTIAL EXAMPLE) of an interface. The game played well on PS3.

Lambonius - 20 August 2014 10:51 AM

If it were to go full 3D and ditch the fixed camera angles, do you think the game would have the same “feel?”  Or does that even matter?  Would a GK3 style gameplay system make sense for it, do you think?

I think you’re overestimating the importance of specific camera angles in GK1 (or any adventure game). The “feel” would come through in the story, the music, the characters, the dialogue and the locations, much of which would be largely unchanged.

     
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There is still the matter of budget. I’m pretty sure that any 3D Telltale season costs at least several millions of dollars to produce and Jane Jensen only had about 450K (minus kickstarter fees).

That coupled with the fact that she does not have an experienced developer as a partner that is capable of producing decent 3D art and animations, would make that a very risky move.

Wasn’t Moebius done in 3D or 3D-ish? imagine the response if she would have given Gabriel Knight the Moebius treatment! Nah, I, for one, am happy she didn’t go in that direction this time.

     
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Shnubble - 20 August 2014 05:44 PM

Gabriel still looks weird. I think I already compared him to Prince Charming from Shrek.

Barbriel Knight? I wonder who they’ll hire for the GK2 remake? Orlando Bloom? Robert Pattinson?

     
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Zifnab - 21 August 2014 02:29 AM
Shnubble - 20 August 2014 05:44 PM

Gabriel still looks weird. I think I already compared him to Prince Charming from Shrek.

Barbriel Knight? I wonder who they’ll hire for the GK2 remake? Orlando Bloom? Robert Pattinson?

The Beibster?

     
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subbi - 21 August 2014 02:20 AM

There is still the matter of budget. I’m pretty sure that any 3D Telltale season costs at least several millions of dollars to produce and Jane Jensen only had about 450K (minus kickstarter fees).

As far I’ve understood that KS money was pretty much spent on Moebius. What, or who, ever is funding GK is an entirely different matter. I’m suspectin it’s Activision, as they were the moneybags in the project when it was done by that other dev group before Activision decided to close that down.

     
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Oh yes, that’s right. I mixed them up. Still, I don’t think Jane had millions at her disposal.

     

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subbi - 21 August 2014 02:20 AM

There is still the matter of budget. I’m pretty sure that any 3D Telltale season costs at least several millions of dollars to produce and Jane Jensen only had about 450K (minus kickstarter fees).

That coupled with the fact that she does not have an experienced developer as a partner that is capable of producing decent 3D art and animations, would make that a very risky move.

Wasn’t Moebius done in 3D or 3D-ish? imagine the response if she would have given Gabriel Knight the Moebius treatment! Nah, I, for one, am happy she didn’t go in that direction this time.

It’s a thought experiment, it’s not “what Jane should have done in this scenario”.

     
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Venkman - 21 August 2014 08:28 AM

It’s a thought experiment, it’s not “what Jane should have done in this scenario”.

But all of the complaints are about what Jane has done in this particular scenario, so budget considerations should be a part of the discussion.  Even beyond this game’s specific budget, I don’t think there will ever be a time when we see an adventure game with the kind of budget required to create an open 3D world with cutting edge graphics.  I think publishers still see the genre as too niche to be worth the investment.  These are really just two different discussions: What would the ideal modern Gabriel Knight game be like in a realistic development scenario, and what would the ideal modern Gabriel Knight game be given a dream development scenario.

For a remake, realistically, you can’t do a complete ground-up overhaul of the gameplay style—you’d risk making the game too different to the point where it alienates fans.  I think the difference between playing in 2D fixed views and full free-roaming 3D is more than just cosmetic.  I feel like it’d pretty profoundly alter the feel of the game, which wouldn’t be right for a remake, in my opinion.  For GK4 though, they’d have a clean slate, so anything goes.  An atmospheric 3D world could be very cool.  Imagine how much better GK3 would be with detailed modern graphics, for example.  It’d be much easier to get into.

     

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Lambonius - 21 August 2014 11:11 AM
Venkman - 21 August 2014 08:28 AM

It’s a thought experiment, it’s not “what Jane should have done in this scenario”.

I don’t think there will ever be a time when we see an adventure game with the kind of budget required to create an open 3D world with cutting edge graphics.

I don’t think it needs to be “open” like in GTA for example. And not cutting edge, either.  The new Sherlock Holmes does look pretty good. Or the Vanishing of Ethan Carter. This doesn’t mean they won’t fall flat in other areas, but it’s not impossible to do a good looking adventure in full 3D.

     
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Lambonius - 21 August 2014 11:11 AM
Venkman - 21 August 2014 08:28 AM

It’s a thought experiment, it’s not “what Jane should have done in this scenario”.

But all of the complaints are about what Jane has done in this particular scenario, so budget considerations should be a part of the discussion.  Even beyond this game’s specific budget,

1.
I don’t think there will ever be a time when we see an adventure game with the kind of budget required to create an open 3D world with cutting edge graphics.  I think publishers still see the genre as too niche to be worth the investment.  These are really just two different discussions: What would the ideal modern Gabriel Knight game be like in a realistic development scenario, and what would the ideal modern Gabriel Knight game be given a dream development scenario.

2.
For a remake, realistically, you can’t do a complete ground-up overhaul of the gameplay style—you’d risk making the game too different to the point where it alienates fans.  I think the difference between playing in 2D fixed views and full free-roaming 3D is more than just cosmetic.  I feel like it’d pretty profoundly alter the feel of the game, which wouldn’t be right for a remake, in my opinion.  For GK4 though, they’d have a clean slate, so anything goes.  An atmospheric 3D world could be very cool.  Imagine how much better GK3 would be with detailed modern graphics, for example.  It’d be much easier to get into.


1.
Rime, Witness and Everybody’s Gone to Rapture etc. are made by Indie teams which were
unknown and even less famous than JJ. I don’t need to remind you that gaming scene is
changing rapidly and new Devs are proving this budget excuse wrong and invalid by
finding other way around. Ways like KS or getting big publishers interest through talent.

MS and Sony hunting for these Indies for a reason. The production quality of Indies ain’t like it was 2 years back. However JJs game quality is going down.

Some standard quality control should be there, else people will find alternative in games like The witness and those names will take the mindshare than our old legends.

Its a competent medium.


Edit:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewreply/68547/

I think you are already proven wrong, (AG budget,scale and graphics argument), i don’t
know but i got more excited by these 13 min than recent Witcher3 demo.

2.
Its more than cosmetic but gives alternative view, to look at things differently.
Riddick games were as good as Movies if not better. If we can experience the same world differently through different mediums , i don’t think different camera angles in same medium can do much harm.

Alienate fans? Given the choice to play low budget, inferior remake OR decent budget re-imagining with different camera view, what would you choose???
IMO former will alienate fans more.

 

     
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Total Posts: 131

Joined 2014-04-11

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Is developer Phoenix Online Studios claiming that they were given an insufficient budget by Activision (or whomever) and that that (and not developer skill limitations) is the reason why their Gabriel Knight remake feels cheap? I certainly haven’t seen them say this, but I could have missed something. It’s important to be fair to them and not suggest things they haven’t claimed.

For all we know Activision (or whomever) provided an amount of funding that should have been ample enough for a capable team to produce an adventure game that doesn’t feel cheap. As has been discussed, many of us have played games developed with modest budgets that nevertheless don’t scream inferior.

Another area that I’m wondering about…. Does anyone know how much of the original Gabriel Knight script was cut for this remake?

     

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OrionO - 21 August 2014 05:38 PM

It’s important to be fair to them

Hear, hear! /sarcasm

     
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Lambonius said:

I don’t think there will ever be a time when we see an adventure game with the kind of budget required to create an open 3D world with cutting edge graphics.  I think publishers still see the genre as too niche to be worth the investment.

Never say never. Look at the success of LA Noir and newer Telltale games. Future big budget adventure games are very much a possibility.

In the meantime, I don’t think it does anyone any good to make excuses for adventure games that needlessly feel cheap. I think it’s okay for adventure game fans to expect better.

     

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