Adventure Gamers - Forums

To quote Winston Churchill: I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself

SoccerDude28 - 08 February 2017 06:41 PM

That’s why I was so excited about Bernie Sanders, who was running only on donations from citizens, and did not take any donations from mega corps. Same goes for Trump actually, as much as I hate him, he funded his own campaign.

Agreed. I would have voted for Sanders too. Unfortunately, I’m not an American citizen.

Same goes for big insurance companies. These companies are private and they have to keep growing and making more profits so that their stock goes up, and their shareholders profit, so they have no interest in low prices.

Another aspect is the ridiculous fees hospital charge patients. On reddit a couple of years back, a 55000 dollar bill was posted for an appendicitis operation. Now I am no doctor, but my parents both are and this surgery is one of the easiest, so to charge that amount of money is absurd. And this is not just a fluke, I have heard several other horror stories of unimaginable bills from the hospitals.

That’s outrageous and I don’t understand how it could happen under Obamacare. If an insurance company has to pay THAT much money to a hospital it can’t be competitive. No way. So how can it grow, make profits, satisfy shareholders, when its patients are running to a much cheaper company.

I have no problem of paying more taxes so the underprivileged can get insurance, but that is not what Obamacare is. Without putting limitations on Pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and hospital prices, the rates are going to keep going up, and everyone poor and rich are paying for it. I don’t know how it’s like in the Netherlands but I am assuming you don’t pay $500 monthly for a decent insurance plan. These are the rates of Obamacare for somepeople, and 500 doesn’t even get you a great plan, but an average to below average one.

Like I said in my previous post, I pay 1400-1500 Euro a year for basic insurance covering GP, specialists, hospital, maternity care, a limited number of physiotherapy sessions. (Dental care and other extras are covered in additional insurance.) Families with children pay twice as much, about 3000 a year. Never 500 a month.

Thanks for the info, very interesting.

EDIT: Read some more and found that the lack of competition is part of the problem. Important difference with my country.

SoccerDude28 - 11 February 2017 02:00 PM

That’s how it works for companies. For individuals who are buying their own health plans and have a serious expensive disease, this is how it works. If you are healthy you can get a pretty good plan for cheap. If you are sick though, your plan is usually super expensive and pretty bad. Now you can ask well what did Obamacare do then? Before Obamacare, they could deny you coverage all together. Under Obamacare, they have to provide you with coverage, but they don’t have to give you an affordable plan - and this is where Obamacare is not good enough for me.

I didn’t realize insurance companies are allowed to charge higher premiums for sick people. That doesn’t sound good at all. Over here everybody, healthy or sick, pays the same basis premium.

Thanks for the info! I’ve learned a lot.

Karlok - 12 February 2017 08:24 AM

I didn’t realize insurance companies are allowed to charge higher premiums for sick people. That doesn’t sound good at all. Over here everybody, healthy or sick, pays the same basis premium.

^ This.

Although it does go up with age, and is slightly higher under some circumstances (i.e. if you’re a smoker). I’m at 400-500 Euro per year for basic insurance. The missus is at 300-400 Euro since she’s 6 years younger and female (yes, insurance companies are sexist that way). Prices will go up when I’m 40, again when I’m 50 and they’ll be in Karlok’s insurance’s ballpark when I’m over 60.

Good thing I don’t even need to take insurance, since the missus and the kids are covered by my health insurance that’s part of my job benefits.

Oh, and as long as the kids are under 5, their medical bills are ZERO for basic care (shared hospital rooms etc.). Even the max amount I get to spend on medication for them is capped at a reasonably low amount each year.

TimovieMan - 13 February 2017 02:04 PM

Karlok - 12 February 2017 08:24 AM

I didn’t realize insurance companies are allowed to charge higher premiums for sick people. That doesn’t sound good at all. Over here everybody, healthy or sick, pays the same basis premium.

^ This.

Although it does go up with age, and is slightly higher under some circumstances (i.e. if you’re a smoker). I’m at 400-500 Euro per year for basic insurance. The missus is at 300-400 Euro since she’s 6 years younger and female (yes, insurance companies are sexist that way). Prices will go up when I’m 40, again when I’m 50 and they’ll be in Karlok’s insurance’s ballpark when I’m over 60.

THAT low? Wow! I don’t know anything about health care insurance in Belgium, it’s not a subject that often comes up at parties. In Holland age and gender, even smoking, are irrelevant. Everybody pays the same basis premium (plus deductibles up to 385 euro), so I wonder how your Belgian insurance companies manage to provide care with those low premiums? 

Good thing I don’t even need to take insurance, since the missus and the kids are covered by my health insurance that’s part of my job benefits.

Oh, and as long as the kids are under 5, their medical bills are ZERO for basic care (shared hospital rooms etc.). Even the max amount I get to spend on medication for them is capped at a reasonably low amount each year.

Here health care (including dental care) for children under the age of 18 is free, i.e. covered by the parents’ premiums. Lots of differences between Holland and Belgium.

wilco - 13 February 2017 02:30 PM

Health care (and education) should be universal and free, the state should provide them. Hate insurance companies, they are a business and health shouldn’t be anywhere near them.

Tell us about Portugal?

Karlok and Timovieman, what if people can’t pay the basic insurance?

The state subsidizes, depends on your income and the amount you can pay.

wilco - 13 February 2017 02:30 PM

Karlok and Timovieman, what if people can’t pay the basic insurance?

Then they’ll have to opt for minimal luxury to lower the costs (shared bedrooms in a hospital, which ensures that the doctors can’t charge an honorary fee, for instance, but also no epidural anesthesia during child birth since that’s billed for around 200 Euros). Hospital bill for child birth without complications (and no caesarean section) would end around 500 Euros for a 4-day stay that way.

But if your income is so low that you really can’t afford that, then you’re likely going to qualify for a higher medical repayment level than I do, so that bill would be lower still.

Karlok - 13 February 2017 05:28 PM

THAT low? Wow! I don’t know anything about health care insurance in Belgium, it’s not a subject that often comes up at parties. In Holland age and gender, even smoking, are irrelevant. Everybody pays the same basis premium (plus deductibles up to 385 euro), so I wonder how your Belgian insurance companies manage to provide care with those low premiums?

The basic ones aren’t covering many luxuries either, and they’re calculated based on how big the chance is that you’ll end up in hospital (hence the higher price if you’re older).
The biggest chunk of the bills is covered by the government anyway. That’s why we pay so many taxes.

Here health care (including dental care) for children under the age of 18 is free, i.e. covered by the parents’ premiums. Lots of differences between Holland and Belgium.

Dental care is free until the age of 18 as well. Possibly even 21 or 25, I forget. Regular medical care isn’t. But the government’s repayment levels are very high, so bills are going to be very low anyway.

The state subsidizes, depends on your income and the amount you can pay.

^ This.

wilco - 14 February 2017 05:08 AM

That’s great, just scares me when Timovimeman says stuff like an epidural is not free. That’s not a luxury. If people want to pay to have a sepparate bedroom or not wait for an appointment that’s fine but all clinical procedures should be the same.

It’s got nothing to do with the procedure, but the medication. It’s the anaesthetics they use in an epidural that aren’t on the list of (almost-)fully government-refunded medication. It’s an exception rather than a rule. It’s just one I know of.

i had to say that one of BEST things about adventuregamersdotcom is giving the space for new/indie developers to open threads about their games at these forums which have become the most common thread posts, with all the befits of communicating with this sophisticated group of members that the adventure scene ever seen.. which i believe is BIG plus for the success of these games and their kickstarts (if that latter got to happen)... just saying, just appreciating.