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Moebius

Total Posts: 18

Joined 2010-08-21

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noknowncure - 18 April 2014 03:53 PM

I’m English and have studied accents and there are lots of ‘tells’ that are easy to miss if you’re from one country performing the accent of another - some actors are flawless, but many let these little differences slip and they really stand out if you’re aware of them.

A simple example that illustrates the rookie errors I’m talking about, is the English vs. US pronunciation of the word ‘Due’ - Americans typically pronounce the word as ‘doo’, whereas the English pronounce ‘d-yew’.

I think what you’re missing is that the US is a very big country and you cannot make generalizations like that with any authority.  I am from the Deep South and I have never said “doo” for due.  It’s pronounced “dew” around here.

Being from the Deep South, born here, I am always amazed by the criticism of Tim Curry’s Southern accent in GK1.  He nailed a variation of the accent I’ve heard often enough in my life and if he exaggerated it a tad at times, so did another Brit who famously wore scarlet to a ball in Atlanta circa 1860-something in an Academy Award winning movie.

All that can be taken just as a side note since I have no interest in Moebius except for the comments I’m reading here about the game.

     
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Total Posts: 1555

Joined 2005-12-06

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noknowncure - 19 April 2014 10:43 AM

There’s an odd defensiveness and an implication that, unless something’s the absolute worst example of a particular issue, it’s not worth mentioning, which is setting the bar very low for the genre.

No one has said that only the absolutely worst thing is worth mentioning, you are (intentionally?) interpreting things wrong. I’d say you have a strange defensiveness in your comments. Basically people have said “it’s not that bad” in response to criticism that made it sound like it was the worst thing in the world.

     

Currently Playing: Dragon Age Origins: Awakening
Recently Played: Red Embrace: Hollywood, Dorfromantik, Heirs & Graces, AI: The Somnium Files, PRICE, Frostpunk, The Shapeshifting Detective (CPT), Disco Elysium, Dream Daddy, Four Last Things, Jenny LeClue - Detectivu, The Signifier

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Total Posts: 1235

Joined 2013-03-31

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WitchOfDoubt - 19 April 2014 12:55 AM

There was no logic to the altar puzzle, save “wander around and gather gems in your limited inventory at random, then savescum until it’s over,”

Wasn’t it something to do with the birthstones of the 12 months and needing ones related to the different seasons?  It’s been a long time since I’ve played it.

     
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Total Posts: 5813

Joined 2012-03-24

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I appreciate the comments from people who have now completed the game (& have actually played it themselves) but am resisting reading through the spoilers until I’ve finished it myself!

I’ve been playing for hours now & have just started Chapter 4 & I’m so far finding this game excellent in so many ways.  To start with I just love the bright, vibrant & colourful backgrounds so beautifully drawn with so much detail in them, also the portrayal of the characters & attention to the details of them from clothing to facial expression & gesture – sure, the execution of the animation including the clumsy movement could be a lot better along but I would support PoS 100% in any future projects as they can build on that & the only way is up for them!!!

After being in ‘contained’ interior scenes I was overjoyed when I went ‘outside’ in Cairo to find that the ‘world’ was expanded by being able to go further to the left & the right.  Yes, the graphics were a bit blurry but given the sharpness in other scenes I guess this was intentional to reflect vision in the dark.

I’ve been enjoying the character analysis – I’m totally crap at it but got there eventually! Also the match-ups with artifacts & historical figures – I really loved all the descriptions but in some cases not so easy!

So far I’ve found the game very well structured & moving along at a pace to keep grabbing my interest. The voice acting is very good & I’m just beginning to learn more about the personalities of Malachi, Walker & also Gretchen.  I’ve also got to the info about the Moebius Theory mmm…....is this when it gets far fetched but is it? I know JJ researches for her games well!

     
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Joined 2009-08-06

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chrissie - 19 April 2014 01:03 PM

the only way is up for them!!!


Basically acknowledging this game reached bottom of the barrel. Mini Smile

     

Total Posts: 200

Joined 2006-05-29

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aimless - 19 April 2014 10:49 AM

I think what you’re missing is that the US is a very big country and you cannot make generalizations like that with any authority.  I am from the Deep South and I have never said “doo” for due.  It’s pronounced “dew” around here.

Being from the Deep South, born here, I am always amazed by the criticism of Tim Curry’s Southern accent in GK1.  He nailed a variation of the accent I’ve heard often enough in my life and if he exaggerated it a tad at times, so did another Brit who famously wore scarlet to a ball in Atlanta circa 1860-something in an Academy Award winning movie.

Sorry, my post does seem to suggest I’m not aware of the diversity of American accents, which I am - just as there is an arguably even wider range of UK accents in a ridiculously small area; Hastiness in what I was typing. I was intending my use of ‘US’ to denote the nationality of Malachi’s VA and referring to his accent and inadvertently implied that there was a generic ‘US’ accent.

However, the point remains that the voice actor pronounces the word ‘Due’ in the inappropriate fashion - amongst other examples.

     
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Total Posts: 5813

Joined 2012-03-24

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Origami - 19 April 2014 01:11 PM
chrissie - 19 April 2014 01:03 PM

the only way is up for them!!!


Basically acknowledging this game reached bottom of the barrel. Mini Smile

No, I was basically acknowledging that (in my mind) PoS did a good job which was not perfect but have the potential to build on that & do a lot better!

     
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Total Posts: 3933

Joined 2011-03-14

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I have just finished the game, and I have to say that I’m not quite as positive about it now as I was earlier.

If we start with the positive, then I found it had an overall intriguing story with some good but not excellent writing, the background art ranged from being beautiful to adequate, it had an interesting protagonist and some good voice acting. And perhaps most important for me, it had some new and interesting puzzles with both the Sherlock Holmes type character deductions and the “match historical person” deductions, which I at least in the beginning found worked very well.

These positive things however began to be overshadowed by the more negative aspects the longer I progressed in the game, and the more time I had to think about them. No - I’m not talking about the character models or the animation, which never really bothered me despite being subpar, nor am I talking about the maze at the end which I found was okay but nothing special.

First of all it is a very linear game with little to nothing you can do in parallel, and it mainly consists of very small locations with only a single or two screens at most locations, and only a few larger locations. Both are very common in modern adventure games, but has never been my cup of tea, I prefer larger locations that I can freely explore and many different objectives that I can work on in parallel. I simply prefer more freedom in how I want to play the game, than following some narrow path that the designers have prepared for me.

The game is also a fairly easy game and a relative short game at about 10 hours, neither which is really to my liking. I cant really complain about the length given the budget, but I do wish it would have been just a little bit more challenging.

Then there is the Sherlock Holmes type character deductions, in the beginning I quite enjoyed those but as someone else has also pointed out, you are really basing your deduction on too few datapoints, based on these there would in reality be many more different conclusions you could make that were equally valid. I also found that instead of making these deductions to determine what kind of character I was dealing with, like Sherlock Holmes would do, then I was instead reverse-engineering them, I would first figure out what the character was like, based on the setting and more important the narrative rules of the game (what kind of character would story-wise work best in this situation), and then I would simply click the options that best fitted this. 

Similar with the “match historical person” deductions, in the beginning I quite enjoyed these, but after a while it began to become apparent that the narrative of the game demanded that it was a match for a specific type of historic person, and I would know who after only having collected a very few clues. The most obvious case being the villain where as soon as I saw the word Kingmaker for one of the historical persons, then I knew that it had to be him regardless of any other clues. Of course if this was real life and not just a game, then we would have to compare many more facts to be sure he was actually a match, but it is just a game so we don’t. In the end it all felt a bit like when in a detective story, you immediately know that someone is the murderer as soon as they are introduced into the story, simply because the only narrative reason the writer can have for adding this person, is that they can later shock the reader with the revelation that (s)he is the murderer, and it always detracts from a story when the narrative rules shines through in this way.

Then there is the whole Moebius theory that the game is based upon, this is of course all a load of supernatural mumbo jumbo and in fact too much mumbo jumbo for my personal taste. But stories about or containing supernatural elements has always been Jane Jensen’s trademark, and normally it doesn’t bother me simply because it is so well made, but it did bothered me this time. Let me explain why:

First we have the whole concept of the Moebius theory, and two character who are suppose to be some sort of reincarnation of Augustus Caesar and his wife Livia or some sort of reoccurring archetype of great leaders. Fair enough, it sound a bit silly but it still has the potential of a great story.

Then we have a villain whose purpose seems to be to interfere with or change these reoccurring patterns. Okay… I wish s(he) had been fleshed out more and given a stronger motive for his/her actions, than the somewhat foolish motive given in the game, but I can accept that, after all the game is not about the villain.

Where my eyes started to glaze over a bit, is when it comes to FITA’s role in this game. Not only are we now moving from the realm of the supernatural into the realm of the outright far fetched, a government agency that is based around the Moebius theory - Seriously?!? And worse then that, it is not only far fetched but also a cheap plot device in my opinion! Jane needed someway to get Malachi involved in the story, and more important, she needed someway for Malachi to gain access to all these high society people and ensure police cooperation etc., and the easiest way to do that was to have someone pave the way for him. I would much have preferred if Malachi had gotten involved in this story in a more natural way, and that he would have had to investigate the story on his own, but this would also have required a lot of extra scenes and puzzles, so I guess we can write this down to the budget constrains.


Continued on next page, as I have apparently written much more than planned, and exceeded that character limitation.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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Total Posts: 3933

Joined 2011-03-14

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Where Jane however completely lost me story-wise was near the end, when we have identified the two characters as Augustus and Livia. Everybody just assumes that because they fit the pattern, then it will also mean that Markham will become a great president of the USA and bring a golden age to the USA and Pax Americana to the world, and not even Malchi who supposedly has an IQ of 175 and otherwise plays the role of the sceptic that gets convinced, questions this. But even if we take the Moebius theory of reoccurring patterns and archetypes seriously, then this doesn’t automatically follow, instead we are now talking about predetermined and unchangeable destinies. But if the Moebius theory means this is predestined to happen, and the villain believes in the Moebius theory, then he would also have know that his own plans could never have worked, so s(he) would obviously never have tried that and there wouldn’t have been any story to tell.

It is like Jane is trying to both have her cake and eat it at the same time, and that she both wants a story where predestination plays an important part, but at the same time also doesn’t, as there then wouldn’t be a story to tell. Personally I would much have preferred if she had completely removed the predestination part and instead just focused on the reoccurring archetypes, but the story could also have worked with predestination, it just requires a few modifications, but instead of this she chose to completely ignore this paradox, and as far as I’m concerned that greatly detracts from the story.

Now I know that all the above sounds like I really hated the game, but that is not the case, despite the many issues I had with the game, the simple truth is that I still enjoyed playing it. It is just not what it potentially could have been, and it is far from the best game Jane Jensen has made.

Based on the rating system on this site, I would give it something like a 3/5 stars.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

Total Posts: 200

Joined 2006-05-29

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millenia - 19 April 2014 10:50 AM
noknowncure - 19 April 2014 10:43 AM

There’s an odd defensiveness and an implication that, unless something’s the absolute worst example of a particular issue, it’s not worth mentioning, which is setting the bar very low for the genre.

No one has said that only the absolutely worst thing is worth mentioning, you are (intentionally?) interpreting things wrong. I’d say you have a strange defensiveness in your comments. Basically people have said “it’s not that bad” in response to criticism that made it sound like it was the worst thing in the world.

An overly defensive response again. I’d love to know what you think I’m being defensive about in my considered criticisms of the game.

If you can accuse me of wilfully misconstruing what you’re saying, I’m quite happy to accuse you of not conveying what you mean to say well enough.

millenia - 19 April 2014 08:54 AM

Yeah the end puzzles were pretty bland in the final chapter, but not horrible.

Comments like this hardly strike me as setting the bar for the genre. Since when has ‘Pretty bland’ been an acceptable finale?

I want Adventure Games to go from strength to strength, not force myself to tolerate mediocrity and endlessly make excuses on their behalf.

     

Total Posts: 76

Joined 2008-01-31

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Iznogood - 19 April 2014 01:25 PM

Then there is the whole Moebius theory that the game is based upon, this is of course all a load of supernatural mumbo jumbo and in fact too much mumbo jumbo for my personal taste. But stories about or containing supernatural elements has always been Jane Jensen’s trademark, and normally it doesn’t bother me simply because it is so well made, but it did bothered me this time.

I think the story is a little bit all over the place and it feels rushed and not as focused as it could be.

     

Total Posts: 200

Joined 2006-05-29

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I think, considering the budget, it’s impressive they managed to create any sort of globetrotting experience at all. Sure, many of the countries were limited to a couple of screens, but I think they managed to convey the idea of world travel - I didn’t find myself questioning that aspect at least. Might’ve been an idea to trade in some of the maze screens for other locations.

     
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Total Posts: 268

Joined 2008-07-05

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noknowncure - 19 April 2014 01:15 PM

However, the point remains that the voice actor pronounces the word ‘Due’ in the inappropriate fashion - amongst other examples.

Well actually you didn’t say that - you said “due” was purely an example of a “rookie error”, not that Malachi’s voice actor made it. Not sure why you now suddenly state that he did?!? I asked for specific examples from the game but you were unable to provide any - you wrote “I’d have to give the game another play through to document the problems I had with Malachi’s voice.”

     

Total Posts: 200

Joined 2006-05-29

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DaveyB - 19 April 2014 02:07 PM
noknowncure - 19 April 2014 01:15 PM

However, the point remains that the voice actor pronounces the word ‘Due’ in the inappropriate fashion - amongst other examples.

Well actually you didn’t say that - you said “due” was purely an example of a “rookie error”, not that Malachi’s voice actor made it. Not sure why you now suddenly state that he did?!? I asked for specific examples from the game but you were unable to provide any - you wrote “I’d have to give the game another play through to document the problems I had with Malachi’s voice.”

Nah mate, I said “A simple example that illustrates the rookie errors I’m talking about, is the English vs. US pronunciation of the word ‘Due’”

I chose it as an illustration because it’s a word said in the game.

I would have to play the game again to document the problems, because there were several, but I’d want to specify them accurately, not just rely on half remembered snatches that occurred when I was trying to focus on the story and gameplay.

     
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Total Posts: 268

Joined 2008-07-05

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noknowncure - 19 April 2014 02:18 PM

Nah mate, I said “A simple example that illustrates the rookie errors I’m talking about, is the English vs. US pronunciation of the word ‘Due’”

I chose it as an illustration because it’s a word said in the game.

Rewriting history much? You never said it was an example of Malachi’s poor voice acting, as the quote above shows. Hence no idea why you’re saying it now. You didn’t when I asked you the straight question.

But then you seem to employ double standards anyway. Tim Curry (British) using an overblown, fake New Orleans accent is great whereas an American using an English accent is terrible. And that’s despite Malachi from his background having a lot of influences which would explain varied pronunciation - lives in NYC, grew up in SA, parents from Germany & Spain (if I remember correct from some blurb at some point during the kickstarter updates). As opposed to Gabriel Knight who’d pretty much never been outside New Orleans. Doesn’t it just come down to the fact that you like Tim Curry’s performance & not Owen Thomas’? Or that you (maybe) notice flaws in a fake English accent (if Malachi’s is?!?) and not a fake US one?

     

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