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Mystery Game X - Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, 20th Anniversary Edition

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nomadsoul - 20 October 2014 05:50 AM

You are cut from same cloth tbh, changed your tune after they became your Promotional outfits, so bias is apparent, hence zero credibility. You need to scratch their back maybe for future deals so please don’t act like neutral party, its not working.

Point being, be unconditional not conditional, and you are the last good person on earth (with civil criticism) when it comes to TTG. Maybe when TTG will publish your game things might get different.

Some truth to that, Nomad Soul, without a doubt. But as you apparantly have an agenda to constantly, aggresively bash Phoenix Online, your level of credibility is about the same on this topic as Lambs is regarding TTG. You’re one of the main reasons this thread has taken the direction it has.

     

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As I have just finished Day 3 - now I feel I earned the right to comment on the game - so the verdict is:

Pros
- its GK!  Cool I am am fan Heart Eyes
- visuals - not the most important for me anyway. Game looks nice and thankfully     no Moebuis - like awkwardness.
- and sound - although I miss Mark Hamil and Tim Curry - overall nicely done; music superb

Cons
- dialogue system that was perfection - gone. Now these blocky rectangles with topics in them - disappearing/appearing - I do not like them at all. Also, removing threads which existed in the original game - a mistake in my opinion. Dialogues are the heart and strongest asset of this game and did not need improving.

- not all locations available from the beginning Pan


All in all interesting thread to read, I really appreciate a lot of people’s insight, even the critical ones. What suprises me is the POS’s response to them - why should they care is beyond me. As many people there are, as many opinions. That their new game will not satisfy everyone is certain - big deal

  Content

     
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Blackthorne - 19 October 2014 03:15 PM

I suggest that being a decent human being is a good thing, and something to strive for.


Bt

I agree, but frankly Lambonius and you being so hypocritical are really far from that definition, you changed your tune for 180° (admit it or not)  for your personal gain.

     
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DaveyB - 20 October 2014 09:17 AM
nomadsoul - 20 October 2014 05:50 AM

You are cut from same cloth tbh, changed your tune after they became your Promotional outfits, so bias is apparent, hence zero credibility. You need to scratch their back maybe for future deals so please don’t act like neutral party, its not working.

Point being, be unconditional not conditional, and you are the last good person on earth (with civil criticism) when it comes to TTG. Maybe when TTG will publish your game things might get different.

Some truth to that, Nomad Soul, without a doubt. But as you apparantly have an agenda to constantly, aggresively bash Phoenix Online, your level of credibility is about the same on this topic as Lambs is regarding TTG. You’re one of the main reasons this thread has taken the direction it has.

You know whats funny, the info about this PoS, the Indian Outsourcing stuff and even
Infamy guys game published by PoS was pointed by someone else and i got to know about all these 3 things from you guys, when it was thrown around as solid argument in other threads.

Moebius AG review on this site mentioned exactly same problems i had.

So there is no weight to your allegation.

I was with Lamb bashing TTG like anything (initially), i bashed BrokenAge like anything,
but in the end loved(TWAU, TWDS2) and accepted TTG as they are, as well as rated BrokenAge 4/5.


So nope, you can’t brand me as one of them.


And i backed up with Sims4 image, its like stock image , you can google it too.
And see if you can compare the art direction and say that he doesn’t look like Gabe
with straight face. However if that’s your or anyone’s idea of art direction then
more power to you. That’s legit criticism imo.

I wish i had same influence on anyone as you imply.

     
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Bogi - 20 October 2014 10:13 AM
Blackthorne - 19 October 2014 03:15 PM

I suggest that being a decent human being is a good thing, and something to strive for.


Bt

I agree, but frankly Lambonius and you being so hypocritical are really far from that definition, you changed your tune for 180° (admit it or not)  for your personal gain.

Like I said, Bogi, “strive for”.  This applies to me too.  I wonder what kind of personal gain you think I would be getting, other than the satisfaction of knowing I try to help support fellow independent developers.


Bt

     
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Hi, Cesar. I don’t visit this forum much these days, but your post here was ]brought to my attention elsewhere.

cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 02:35 AM

As head of Phoenix Online Studios, my experience with the Adventure Community in general, and especially the community from this site, has left me confused to the point where I cannot grasp the great amounts of negativity towards the same genre that you are seemingly supporting.

I’m sorry, but you need to stop and think. I get that it’s not fun to read negative comments about a project you’ve been a part of making, that you love, but your posts here are unprofessional and makes both you and your studio look bad. When you’re a professional, you can’t post the same way you would if you were a random fan.

I wish you well, but what I’ve seen of the GK1 remake does not excite me. If you want the reasons why, read Richard Cobbett’s review at RPS and to some extent his later article at PC gamer. He puts it better than I could have.

When you’re remaking a game, it’s inevitable that it’ll get compared to the original. What budget you had to make it is irrelevant - the original is still what the game will be compared to. (And in some cases, it’ll even be compared to the memory of the original. You could never hope to please those fans.)

So when the time comes for me to play the game, I’ll use the CD with the original version that I have in my bookcase. I haven’t played it yet even though GK2 is one of my all time favourites. I very much intend to, but there are too many good games competing for my time and attention. I haven’t played GK3 either because I can’t get past how ugly it looks. I tried the demo and that’s it. But because I keep hearing that it’s a good game despite that, I might give it a chance some day. I did after all play Simon the Sorcerer 3 though, and managed to enjoy that.

I’ll leave you with another Cobbett quote:

Devs that talk the talk have to be able to walk the walk. Do stuff like this - http://www.postudios.com/company/about.php - and you’re honestly begging for it.

(Edit: Also read, and think about, this conversation.)

     

You can play my game Frasse and the Peas of Kejick for free! (AG review here.)

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Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM


I’m sorry, but you need to stop and think. I get that it’s not fun to read negative comments about a project you’ve been a part of making, that you love, but your posts here are unprofessional and makes both you and your studio look bad. When you’re a professional, you can’t post the same way you would if you were a random fan.

No idea why you think that. They make Cesar look like someone who cares about Adventure Games to me. I don’t agree with everything he wrote, but I’m very happy he gave his own opinion and engages with others on here. Definitely preferable to some faceless megacompany or some standard PR blurb.

Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM

I wish you well, but what I’ve seen of the GK1 remake does not excite me. If you want the reasons why, read Richard Cobbett’s review at RPS and to some extent his later article at PC gamer.

There’s about 50 reviews of the GK1 remake out there, yet you’re focusing on the one which is, I think, the most negative of them all. Could it be someone’s got an agenda here? Doesn’t seem like a neutral to me at any rate…

Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM

He puts it better than I could have.

Well that’s hardly surprising seeing as…

Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM

So when the time comes for me to play the game, I’ll use the CD with the original version that I have in my bookcase. I haven’t played it yet

So despite the fact that, as you say yourself, you rarely visit this site any more, you’ve decided to make this post about something where YOU’VE PLAYED NEITHER THE ORIGINAL NOR THE NEW VERSION purely to bash the developer with quotes from ONE bad review. This just fits the thread so well, it’s laughable. Or maybe it’s just a parody of some other posts on this thread

Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM

I haven’t played it yet even though GK2 is one of my all time favourites. I very much intend to, but there are too many good games competing for my time and attention.

You must have been very busy these last 20 years to not have managed it. Maybe you should spend some time playing one of the games as opposed to posting here about something you haven’t played. Just my opinion.

     

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DaveyB - 20 October 2014 01:55 PM

There’s about 50 reviews of the GK1 remake out there, yet you’re focusing on the one which is, I think, the most negative of them all. Could it be someone’s got an agenda here? Doesn’t seem like a neutral to me at any rate…

 

He simply used it to illustrate his point of view on the remake. I could do the same.
I wonder, though, if all the social media stuff is really helpful for the relationship between journalists, developers and fans.

     
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Shnubble - 20 October 2014 03:00 PM

He simply used it to illustrate his point of view on the remake. I could do the same.
I wonder, though, if all the social media stuff is really helpful for the relationship between journalists, developers and fans.

But he said he hasn’t played the remake (nor the original)...(“What I’ve seen…” doesn’t sound to me like someone who’s played the game)

     
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Trumgottist - 20 October 2014 01:03 PM

So when the time comes for me to play the game, I’ll use the CD with the original version that I have in my bookcase. I haven’t played it yet even though GK2 is one of my all time favourites. I very much intend to, but there are too many good games competing for my time and attention. I haven’t played GK3 either because I can’t get past how ugly it looks. I tried the demo and that’s it.

 

My first GK game was also GK 2 ( played it in 2010) and it is in my top 3 adventure games of all time. So when I finished it I just had to play the other two games, even though GK 1 looks very dated. You must be very busy if you still haven´t played GK 1 even though GK 2 was one of your all time favourites.

I am on day 3 now and have some new things to say about the game. First of all I had no bugs, or crashes, so that is good because while playing Cognition I usually had at least one crash per episode. I was concerned what quality would the voicework for the game be. Now after I have visited more locations in the game I have to say that the voice acting is really good, except for that dancing kid in the park Meh.

The backgrounds look good but in some places I think that they are a little darker than they had to be.

I like the new dialogue system, because when you have asked everything about a certain topic it would disappear, which saves you from getting the same answers in the future when new topics come up.

I also like the character portraits, except Gabriel´s. I think they all look really good (Malia is gorgeous) and the animations make them more alive. My complaint about them is that in some dialogues the characters would keep their mouth closed while talking ( I guess it´s a bug).

It´s nice that they included those sketches from the original game so that new players could see how the original game looked.

I don´t know, maybe I am blind and I don´t see all this things that some people are complaining about, or I am not as nitpicky as some people are, but the more I play this remake the more it feels like the original, and I hope that I will be able to finish it because in the original game I had a bug at the end that made it impossible for me to see the ending, but at least I could see it on youtube.

     

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What staggers me is someone on this forum admitted to ENJOYING Simon 3d. I mean…how do you argue with someone like that? Tongue Wink

     
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A.A - 20 October 2014 04:24 PM

What staggers me is someone on this forum admitted to ENJOYING Simon 3d. I mean…how do you argue with someone like that? Tongue Wink

Not something I managed lol. The 1st two games are ones I did miss out on…the 3rd one unfortunately not Tongue

     
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A.A - 20 October 2014 04:24 PM

What staggers me is someone on this forum admitted to ENJOYING Simon 3d. I mean…how do you argue with someone like that? Tongue Wink

I actually liked it better than the two first. (But it’s still far from a favourite.)

(I’m not replying to DaveyB, as I don’t want to get into an angry argument. I considered making my first post a PM instead. Maybe that would have been the better option. I’ll go away again now.)

     

You can play my game Frasse and the Peas of Kejick for free! (AG review here.)

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Iznogood - 21 August 2014 06:24 PM
OrionO - 21 August 2014 05:38 PM

Another area that I’m wondering about…. Does anyone know how much of the original Gabriel Knight script was cut for this remake?

As I understand it, nothing is as such being cut out, but some have been rewritten and things has been added.

(Now that the retail release is out, I feel I can answer this question more fairly. I decided not to answer it when it was originally asked, because at that time I would have been basing my response only on the Day 1-4 Backer Beta, which was still subject to change. For those wondering, dialogue was mostly but not totally finalized as of the Beta.)

There are indeed some cuts to the dialogue in the remake, which may be noticed by those with a strong memory of the original game or those doing a side-by-side comparison. I don’t know what percentage of the script is cut, but here’s a few examples from the very beginning of the game:

1) Gabriel and Grace’s opening lines have been rewritten, and this also includes some cuts. Most of the cuts seem to be due to the streamlining of what places you can visit on each day and due to the elimination of Gabriel’s tape recorder (in the original) in favor of a journal (in the remake).

2) Some object interactions are cut. The majority of the interesting or important interactions are still there. (The remake actually has very high interaction density for a modern adventure game.) Most interactions that are cut are of the “You can’t do that” variety or are redundant of other interactions and are no great loss, but you might miss the occasional amusing response here and there.

3) Some dialogue trees are shortened. For example, in the original game, Grace gave up to six responses to the “Just tell me anything at all” option in her dialogue tree. In the remake, she gives only three responses, and the other three were cut.

The three responses that were cut from the remake are:

GRACE: I’ve always wanted to do something really adventurous, you know? Something… real life. I’m sick of libraries and lecture halls.

GRACE: My folks are traditional Japanese. I don’t even remember Japan, myself. I was three when we came to the States.

GRACE: My folks want me to get married to a boy back east—Mark Kobayashi. His parents are traditional Japanese, too. I might eventually, but right now….

I can understand the desire to make the dialogue trees shorter, but personally, I would have cut some of the dialogue under the “Chat” option for Grace instead. The “Chat” option is still seven clicks deep in the remake and retains minor banter like this:

GABRIEL: Done anything interesting lately?
GRACE: By your definition, no. I prefer it that way.

GABRIEL: Keeping busy?
GRACE: Not really. If you want any research done, let me know.

Personally, I consider those particular Chat lines less important (the research bit is already established elsewhere) and more appropriate to cut than the details about Grace’s motivations and upbringing, but oh well, what’s done is done.

     

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DaveyB - 20 October 2014 04:01 PM

But he said he hasn’t played the remake (nor the original)...(“What I’ve seen…” doesn’t sound to me like someone who’s played the game)

I can’t speak for him but what some people here seem to have a hard time understanding is others can take one look at the graphics and immediately decide that the remake looks a lot worse than the original. Everyone will have a different opinion on this, of course, but for me it’s purely about production values, artistry and craftsmanship.
It might look good for POS’s standards and be an improvement over their other titles and of course I’d be probably much more mellow if this was a completely new title. But in the end all of this doesn’t matter to me. I can play the same story with graphics which are pleasing to me and I know my way around the problems of the original anyway. So it makes zero sense for me to play(test) the remake and probably be upset a lot.

Edit: If I say “playtest” I’m not talking about bugs but about playing purely in order to see what was changed in what way.

     

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