AG community needs to speak up!

[KanyeWest]

Still Life, The Moment of Silence and today Martin Mystere..


IVE HAD IT :r Is this really the best out there these days? Is this the evolution of Sam n Max, Full Throttle, Blade Runner and TLJ??

Sometimes i think, maybe its just me..ive gotten older..maybe i dont enjoy the games as much anymore as when i was 15. Maybe I should just stop playing AG. But ****, when i install BR again and realise that i still find it such a great game and still play it with the same intensity as i did when i was younger..

I KNOW that AG developers are just screwing up bigtime. That they lack any inspiration. Inspiration that is needed so badly to produce another gem of an adventure.

The difference is that AG used to be developed by a hardcore group that turned their hobby into profession. Nowadays making a game is purely professional..its considered a project with the sole purpose of selling as much as possible.

This is how AG developers of today think how the game should look:

-Give it something that looks like up to date graphics..but it always turns out to be extremely static. The environments of todays AG have a very eerie feeling..
-Hire some beginning actors, so the costs stay low
-Dont try to think of a new and exciting theme or interface..that takes too much time. Better stick with the old "spend an hour on a puzzle to open some briefcase or unlock a door so the game lasts longer" :r
-Dont give the player too much free roaming space, he or she might get lost :shifty:

Dont get me wrong..i have respect for AG developers that try to make a good game, but are faced with low budget etc so the game fails. But WHY spend so much time on flashy static graphics and a suckage storyline..when i rather have BR (here i go again :P ) graphics AND terrific storyline..

FFS AG DEVELOPERS..(and i know you are reading this) TRY to come up with something good ;(

here are the things i like to see:

-Non static backgrounds (if you want your hero to feel authentic..dont put him in lifeless surroundings)

-Decent voiceacting (usually hiring 1 famous actor helps out a great deal. The level of voiceacting is lifted by that 1 professional..talented voiceactors will perform at a higher level when that one veteran is there to set the standard! A good example of this is the voiceacting in San Andreas, which imo is superb. There they hired Samuel L Jackson to do the voice of Ofiicer Tenpenny; Anyone that played SA will tell you that the cutscenes seem very realistic)

-Free movement in a city or district (When will developers learn that it minimizes the fun immediatly when the hero is restricted to a certain area from the beginning :frusty: I dont want to be trapped in a room from the start cuz i cant find that 1mm hotspot FFS. i like to have the feeling there is more to the game..)

Last and most important: The average AdventureGamer is not 10 years old! So stop with the guidance punchlines like: "Oh-I-am-glad-Mary-called-maybe-I-should-go-and-see-my-dad-now" I mean, let the Gamer think for himself in stead of making the hero reflect his thoughts out loudly. If i want constant indirect help with a game, i can go and buy Spongebob adventures :shifty:


Yeah im ungrateful and a lamer who doenst appreciate sh/t, sue me :Z

[Ninth]

I find Still Life to be superior to The Longest Journey, Blade Runner, and Full Throttle, which by the way didn't exactly respect your "here's what I'd like to see" list.

[KanyeWest]

I find Still Life to be superior to The Longest Journey, Blade Runner, and Full Throttle, which by the way didn't exactly respect your "here's what I'd like to see" list.

ok...

[SamNMax]

Jesus Walks

God show me the way, 'cause the Devil's tryin' 'a break me down

Jesus Walks


Kanyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Wreck]

here are the things i like to see:

-Non static backgrounds (if you want your hero to feel authentic..dont put him in lifeless surroundings)

"Well graphics have changed from the 256 color Space Quest 4 or Kings Quest 6 look to the new highly rendered Maya\Lightwave\3DMax backdrops you find today in games. You have to expect the higher level of detail that comes with games, just like the way filmmaking has changed in the past 10 years. I found Black Mirror, The Longest Journey, etc to excite me with location graphics just as much as the oldies. One thing I'm just counting my blessings on is that a point and click adventure still exists."

-Decent voiceacting (usually hiring 1 famous actor helps out a great deal. The level of voiceacting is lifted by that 1 professional..talented voiceactors will perform at a higher level when that one veteran is there to set the standard! A good example of this is the voiceacting in San Andreas, which imo is superb. There they hired Samuel L Jackson to do the voice of Ofiicer Tenpenny; Anyone that played SA will tell you that the cutscenes seem very realistic)

"You need to remember that The Longest Journey is not on the same budget as StarWars. The games may be dazzling, and very important to US, but not big enought to hire out a cast of professionals or well known actors to sit in a studio for weeks and read every line of an adventure game. Voice acting has been good and bad in some games, but why are you comparing them to old games? Most old games didn't have talkies unless they were redone as talkies after the original was released originally silent"

-Free movement in a city or district (When will developers learn that it minimizes the fun immediatly when the hero is restricted to a certain area from the beginning :frusty: I dont want to be trapped in a room from the start cuz i cant find that 1mm hotspot FFS. i like to have the feeling there is more to the game..)

I dunno. Free movement isn't what the story is about. Sherlock Holmes didn't have free movement. You had to earn your locations by clues. New areas would open up for you to explore as you moved through the story. The Kings Quest series had a lot of free movement however, letting you travel 50 screens and die before you realized "hmm I don't need to go there yet". So it's all a matter of the game maker"

Last and most important: The average AdventureGamer is not 10 years old! So stop with the guidance punchlines like: "Oh-I-am-glad-Mary-called-maybe-I-should-go-and-see-my-dad-now" I mean, let the Gamer think for himself in stead of making the hero reflect his thoughts out loudly. If i want constant indirect help with a game, i can go and buy Spongebob adventures :shifty:

"Puzzles have gotten easier, but then again, have they? We've gotten older as these games have been made. Some things just may seem like more common sense to us now. When I was younger, figuring out Sherlock Holmes or a Space Quest game would stump me, but now I find them easier to tackle if you think of how the games are made. *shrug"

[gillyruless]

I also think the story in Still Life is a lot better than games like Blade Runner and Full Throttle. Both of these games have a lot going for them and they are a lot of fun but as far as the main narrative is concerned, they pale in comparison. I understand that in some gamers eye Still Life has a lot of weaknesses but I do not think it's fair to dismiss the game in entirety because of its few weaknesses.

On another thread, I read post made by someone who claimed that the recent AGs do not have great stories like S&M, DOT&T, MI games among other. I'm sorry but this is just not true. As great as these games are, what they are known for is not a great story. None of these games actually have a story line that is deep and interesting as games like Still Life and MOS.

I'm with Ninth on your wish list by the way. The things you listed are all good to have and will definitely make the games more fun but none of the things you listed will make or break the game.

[SamNMax]

Honestly, I hate these threads. I don't want to debate the genre's state or spend time reading these huge posts that go around in circles. I just want to play, damn it.

[samIamsad]

On another thread, I read post made by someone who claimed that the recent AGs do not have great stories like S&M, DOT&T, MI games among other. I'm sorry but this is just not true. As great as these games are, what they are known for is not a great story.

It's not the story, it's how it's being told in the game. :) Pacing, character development, you know.. quality writing, acting abilities of game characters etc. etc. . But I've already posted enough about this and I don't feel like doing it again. Just dropped by to say: Kanye, this (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=9293) might be your game. ;)

[gillyruless]

It's not the story, it's how it's being told in the game. :) Pacing, character development, you know.. quality writing, acting abilities of game characters etc. etc. . But I've already posted enough about this and I don't feel like doing it again. Just dropped by to say: Kanye, this (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=9293) might be your game. ;)
For the sake of maintaining my sanity, I think I wil make an attempt to refrain from reading/participating in threads such as this in the future as well. Like I said before, I think my time will be better spent on playing games I like, like Still Life and MOS, than trying to defend their quality.

[samIamsad]

Meow.. I recommended this based on the criteria posted by him/her above. Maybe Mafia's not an adventure game(...), but form follows function, as they say. :)

[gillyruless]

Meow.. I recommended this based on the criteria posted by him/her above. Maybe Mafia's not an adventure game(...), but form follows function, as they say. :)
You'd better watch it, sam. The rumor has it that I killed the adventure games.

[Steve Ince]

TRY to come up with something goodComments like this always make me smile. I could probably guarantee that ALL adventure developers, from small amateurs to wealthy (ho ho) professionals, always try to come up with something good. No one sets out making a game with the intention of making something that's poor.

[Wreck]

Now I feel silly for writing a long reply to this thread hah
:frown:

[Fairygdmther]

You've just joined this forum and come in with the ultimatum that the adventure gaming community needs to speak up. Could it be that many of us HAVE spoken up and that you, maybe, haven't seen it and therefore are assuming that we haven't had our say, and are sitting idly by waiting for some new forumite to come in and save the day for us? If you would look so far as the top stickied post in this forum - you will see references to the longest and most discussed threads are on just this very topic. And you know what? Everything you've said have been mentioned before, ad nauseam. And lots more besides.

Developers Martin Gantefoehr (Mystery of the Druids, and Moment of Silence)and Steve Ince (Broken Sword Series, and developing Juniper Crescent) are frequent posters here and have given us some real insight into the game developing process.

Back in the "good old days" when a good game could be developed for $10,000, by 4-6 guys, things were different in many ways. Simpler graphics were easier to develop as well as cheaper. Now graphic engines cost big bucks, or you can take the time, effort and developmental energy to create your own. Actors, professional ones also cost big bucks, and when today's adv games must be developed on a shoestring budget - like $5-10,000,000, compared to GTA, for instance, with its $180,000,000 budget (or so I've heard), you can't compare the results. It's like comparing a kid's toy car with a real one.

Much of the publisher's money goes into marketing, and TV ads cost plenty. Few games of any genre get this kind of marketing scheme - only those "sequels" that are virtually guaranteed success. I've heard that if you go to a publisher with an adventure game today, you are practically escorted to the door. Yet without publisher's advance financing, how will you raise the money to make these wonderful games you are requesting? Seen as a niche market, if not seen as "dead", adv games just don't bring back the money that games like GTA do. And they never will unless we begin to market to the correct demographics. With what little marketing that adv games get, and what little shelfspace in the brick and mortar stores, adv games have no way to progress to the level of the FPS games of today.

The younger players of today seem to want more action-based games, and bleeding edge graphics - not the more cerebral approach that adv games offer. Selling adv games to them is useless - they simply aren't into this kind of game as a whole. Marketers need to expand their viewpoints, and aim for the online casual gamers, and pull them into the adv gaming fold.

But publishers aren't interested in long term goals, seemingly. They want hard profits now - they aren't looking at the fact that adv games have a longer shelf life, many for over 10 years, unlike the GTA's of the gaming world that have a shelf life of 3-6 months. They don't see that if they don't get their money back in short order, that they may over time with an adv game, unlike the FPS's. They can't see that bringing in new gamers is going to be worth it in the long run. They don't recognize that many potential gamers don't want the violent games for their families, and would buy adv games if they knew about them.

Yes, we do need to speak up - but it isn't the developers that are at fault here - it is the greedy publishers, with no vision, and inept marketers, who aren't doing demographic studies who need to be brought to task here.

And for you who just arrived, be welcome, but do your homework before rallying the troops to arms!

Lynsie

[Antoinetta]

"I understand that in some gamers eye Still Life has a lot of weaknesses but I do not think it's fair to dismiss the game in entirety because of its few weaknesses." Posted by Gillyruless

I loved Still Life, what there was of it. As far as I am concerned, the game had only one flaw, but that was a MAJOR one; ultimately, it was only half a game. The developer (Microids Canada) was sold off during the game's development, so the game was cut short and a hasty ending, which explained absolutely nothing, was tacked on.

Antoinetta

[Melanie68]

I find Still Life to be superior to The Longest Journey, Blade Runner, and Full Throttle, which by the way didn't exactly respect your "here's what I'd like to see" list.

:shifty:
I really liked Still Life in terms of its story and, forgive me, but the S&M club was my favorite place :D. I think, however, that in terms of story originality and very intelligent dialogue, The Longest Journey was far superior. I've never played Blade Runner or Full Throttle so I can't comment on those.

[Ninth]

:shifty:
I really liked Still Life in terms of its story and, forgive me, but the S&M club was my favorite place :D. I think, however, that in terms of story originality and very intelligent dialogue, The Longest Journey was far superior. I've never played Blade Runner or Full Throttle so I can't comment on those.
To each his/her own. The Longest Journey felt cliché and slightly boring to me, not to mention it had a horrendous pace, sometimes rushed, sometimes veeerrry slow. Still a great game, though, but in my opinion vastly overrated.

[KanyeWest]

LOL, reading my post back gives me a big :D . I sound so frustrated :P

I think its just that ive gotten older and i cant seem to get into games as i could when i was a teenager. I have to accept this, but truth is that i still hope to see a gem of an adventure one of these days. The true evolution of adventuregames. :)