Video Game Violence? [Archive]

Ninja Dodo

09-11-2003, 06:28 AM

Some people need to sue their own heads for failing to provide them with enough intelligence. Gee... if they had lived in europe, would they have had guns?

Yeah but, dude... guns, like... they're good for self-defense and stuff... like say you're caught on this highway, yeah... and these two f****d up kids drive up to you with a 22 and try to cap your ass. Man, yeah. Then having a gun would be good, right? I mean-- yeah.

Yes, let's have shoot-outs on the highway! :frusty:

Anyone else see Bowling for Columbine?

twifkak

09-11-2003, 06:32 AM

Anyone else see Bowling for Columbine?
Yes. Freaky stuff, if a little too Mooreized (as usual).

Ninja Dodo

09-11-2003, 06:38 AM

I'm not sure how you mean Mooreized, but I think the man's a genius.

Royal Fool

09-11-2003, 06:49 AM

I think that if there's violence, the consequences should be shown as well.

As for those two kids, who knows? They might have used GTA3 as an excuse for their stupid behaviour (Although gunning down someone just 'because' is way beyond stupid) and thought they would get off the hook. I don't have a clue.

bpfinsa

09-11-2003, 06:54 AM

I think Penny-Arcade has the right idea on who is to blame for teenage video game violence:
http://penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-08-11

And in the case of these parents, it wasn't just the lack of judgment of letting children play GTA, but also by not locking up firearms from their children. I'm sure the parents of these kids are going through a lot of pain right now, but not as much pain as the family of the man who was killed. I think these kids should be tried as adults and be put in prison for the rest of their lives for what they did.

But getting sue-happy with corporations isn't the solution. Why single out Take-Two? Why not the gun makers? I'd argue that guns are much deadlier products than video games. The people to sue are the parents, plain and simple.

--BPF

remixor

09-11-2003, 07:02 AM

I can't say Take Two is at fault--obviously, the kids are to blame. It's ridiculous to pin this type of thing on game developers.

That being said, I honestly can't help but be worried about the enormous amounts of violence that kids experience in video games these days. I know that it's up to the parents to exercise moderation and proper parenting, but I really don't think it's possible for parents to have all that much control. Both my parents had to work when I was a kid, and though I think my mom did a good job raising me (dad didn't have much input), there was no way she could have actually kept tabs on all the movies I saw and stuff I did. It's even more the case today, when kids can just download games illegally. Money isn't even a factor. I could be wrong (and I hope I am), but it just seems dangerous to me when kids' entire source of recreation becomes killing virtual people. Sure, kids have played "cops and robbers" for ages, and games like that revolve around pretending to kill people. Videogames, however, are quite different (IMO anyway). I'm not saying we should censor games or anything; I don't even know what I'd suggest because I don't think I have a solution. I am concerned though, and though I hope my concern is unwarranted, it's hard for me to believe that it truly is.

Ninja Dodo

09-11-2003, 07:12 AM

remixor

09-11-2003, 07:16 AM

It's very simple really... if there were little to no guns in the US, there wouldn't be a problem. All you have to do is look at Europe to see the proof. Same games, same movies, virtually no murders and what do you know... barely any guns.

But then, try convincing the American people or government of that. :rolleyes:

Go NRA! :pan:

Yeah, I completely agree that the US needs some serious gun control. However, since you mentioned Bowling For Columbine, bear in mind that Moore said the problem goes way beyond simply having guns around. It's a much deeper-rooted issue which he specifically said he was not able to diagnose. Canada has more guns per capita than the US, for example.

twifkak

09-11-2003, 07:25 AM

My impression of his final conclusion is that it's rooted in the history of the country -- war, revolution, gold rush, etc..

Kolzig

09-11-2003, 07:26 AM

From day to day I seem to understand USA and it's people (ok, the kind of people we see in Bowling for Columbine) less and less.

Strange stuff, very strange.

Parents just don't seem to care for their children, or something, it all just seems so absurd.

Michael Moore really does an important job, I like what he is doing very much

The Poisoned Pawn

09-11-2003, 07:27 AM

I certainly agree that Take Two is NOT at fault in this case. There are other underlying factors involved here. These kids clearly had some issues, because no reasonable person would shoot at people on the road just because they saw it in a computer game. If they didn't kill this particular person, they may have killed someone else in the future, or comitted some other crime, GTA or no GTA.

People these days have become sue-happy. Just about every day I hear of another crazy law suit. McDonald's getting sued for making people fat. Viacom being sued over renaming TNN to "Spike". People seem to just want to sue for the sake of suing, and it's getting ridiculous.

remixor

09-11-2003, 07:27 AM

pleto4_ryan

09-11-2003, 07:44 AM

Parents just don't seem to care for their children, or something, it all just seems so absurd.

From what i know.
There is a good reason for that.
40-30 years ago a phycologist appeared in US and said that parents should be behind their childs all the time (like death :P ) until the age of 12-13 and then let them totally free. Most followed this "wonderful" saying. Imagine how that ocurred to the phycology of those children. That same phycologist came up 10-5 years ago and said that he was false...
One of the reasons :D .

----------------------------------------

It's a much deeper-rooted issue which he specifically said he was not able to diagnose.

As a european comic maker said in a comic...Americans has the urge to be violent...(by drawing in a page 35 panels in which she drawed america's being always against someone in all their history"
Starting from the war against england
"Booh to englishmen"
to even in the future "Take that Sizor XII"

----------------------------------------

As for the vilonece...(said much before)

I like to remember what the killer wanted to do in Scream 2...

"I'll blame the movies"

and also let's remember the quote from Sream 1

"Movies don't create killers, they just make them more creative"

Now, just change the word "movies" with "games" and you have the new modern way. :P

Garyos

09-11-2003, 07:45 AM

Sure, kids have played "cops and robbers" for ages, and games like that revolve around pretending to kill people.

When I played Cops and Robbers, we used to CATCH the robbers, not SHOOT them. A difference between Americans and Norwegians I guess... :)

fov

09-11-2003, 08:31 AM

From day to day I seem to understand USA and it's people (ok, the kind of people we see in Bowling for Columbine) less and less.

neither do i, and i live here.

Parents just don't seem to care for their children, or something, it all just seems so absurd.

remember that the media never gives a fair representation of reality. you don't see good things on tv or in the news, only bad things. it's a major societal problem, in my opinion... and responsible for a lot of people looking for negative reinforcement (i.e., doing bad things because it's the only way to get attention.)

in florida a few summers ago there was a lot of publicity about a few shark attacks. the irony was that there were *fewer* shark attacks that summer than there had been for several years previous. it just became popular to talk about them.

there are more parents here who care for their children than not, you're just never going to see them on the news.

-emily

Ninja Dodo

09-11-2003, 08:43 AM

However, since you mentioned Bowling For Columbine, bear in mind that Moore said the problem goes way beyond simply having guns around. It's a much deeper-rooted issue which he specifically said he was not able to diagnose. Canada has more guns per capita than the US, for example.Yes, I really don't understand it. Are we to believe that a large part of the American public is simply not right in the head? They do say democracy is the device that ensures people are governed no better than they deserve... :rolleyes:
To be fair though it was only like 30% of the voters that actually went for Bush, right? - gotta love that winner takes all system! - ... and about 10% of the population because few people actually voted. So there's still hope, I guess. But seriously if Bush gets re-elected, then the US is just DOOMED.

Anyway to get back to the topic of violence... It's strange that despite similar amounts of weapons Canada is not even a fraction as violent. However, the fact remains that without weapons it's a lot harder to kill people. If the US had the same amount of guns as most European countries, I imagine there would be very few murders indeed. Sure, people may still strangle each other, grab a baseball-bat or whatever - I'm sure Lieberman will be glad he can still blame GTA for that - but I highly doubt the violence will be even a fraction as bad as it is now.

Wajus

09-11-2003, 09:03 AM

What violence?

James

09-11-2003, 09:08 AM

In my opinion, it's a combination of factors. Directly, the children are to blame, but at their age, it is subjective as to whether they are entirely accountable for their actions. To blame the game solely would also be narrowminded. One needs to address the ease of access to fire arms for a start, and the social issues that would prompt two children to be "bored" enough to go on a highway and shoot people. Of course, you can always also blame the parents :P.

Kode

09-11-2003, 09:13 AM

The kids have to have had something wrong with them in the first place.

Don't know exactly which GTA they're talking about, but I'm pretty sure that game was rated "M." If people think their teens can be allowed to play M-rated games, their teens should no better than to open fire on highways :o

SamandMax

09-11-2003, 09:28 AM

Yeah, if you take a gun and open fire on real people, you obviously have some emotional problems. Maybe video games can affect people who already have violent tendencies, but that's a small percentage, and I think most people can play violent video games without any reprecussions.

Tamara

09-11-2003, 10:41 AM

Directly, the children are to blame, but at their age, it is subjective as to whether they are entirely accountable for their actions.
At 14 and 16?! Like hell they're accountable for their actions. Hell, that's part of the problem, making kids feel they're not responsible for their own screw-ups.

Kingzjester

09-11-2003, 02:45 PM

That is ENOUGH! Let's stop bashing the greatest plutocracy in the known universe and talk about problems facing Mongolia.

I have no clue what the hell is happening in Mongolia right now and I would really like to know.

Why are people in the wider western world obsessed with bashing the US? I mean - it really isn't hard to find fault in the US plutocracy - where's the challenge?

We live in decadent times, folks.

Children were bored, so they killed at random? A true Greek tragedy. Appear, ye gods! Witness these mournful tears trickling down my succulent cheeks! You know, though extremely dumb, those kids did do something that requires a spark of genius: they blamed somebody completely arbitrarily, and the mainstream believed them.

And the parents kept the guns loaded - just in case, you know, the British, die Germans, Ruskies, Japs, or the dreaded Spanish Armada came a-knocking on their door. I have a better idea: they should've installed a motion detector and connected it to a napalm sprinkler! What great fun! To see squirrels and joggers melt in the driveway every other night!

And what about the people whose loved family member was killed by a bunch of spoiled lunatic children? While the dead woman's body is still warm, they are a little too ready to sue WHOEVER! How shallow are these freaks!? Yes, only an exorbitant sum of money would alleviate the pain! O, woe is me! Why don't they sue General Motors for not making their cars more bulletproof?

Why not blame this whole charade on God's Divine Plan? That is a great answer for everything. I just don't know why would Tim want that woman dead...

Intrepid Homoludens

09-11-2003, 03:29 PM

Witness these mournful tears trickling down my succulent cheeks!

Succulent cheeks? Succulent cheeks?!!You know, I was beginning to take your soapboxing with some modicum of seriousness until I read that. BRRR!!That was so......I dunno what it was but it was 100% that.

Anyway, I agree with you, less the succulent cheeks.

[goes off to play a few very, very violent rounds of Soldier of Fortune II deathmatch.....considers changing his player name from Krispy Krotch to Soccer Mom On Acid but changes his mind]

Kingzjester

09-11-2003, 03:54 PM

[goes off to play a few very, very violent rounds of Soldier of Fortune II deathmatch.....considers changing his player name from Krispy Krotch to Soccer Mom On Acid but changes his mind]Well, you've read Homer, Sophocles, Virgil and the rest of the fruits. They always have phrases like 'the rozy fingers of dawn' and shuch shit...

Lots of pathos...

You know...

Er...

[K. blushes in shame over a misfired word, searches for a scapegoat]

Can I blame the entertainment industry and the language barrier?

Intrepid Homoludens

09-11-2003, 04:02 PM

No, but when pleto walks in you'll instinctively know what to do.

pleto4_ryan

09-11-2003, 08:35 PM

and shuch shit...

:eek:

:(

*slaps Kingz to death

James

09-11-2003, 09:27 PM

The Poisoned Pawn

09-11-2003, 11:40 PM

At 14 and 16 you are legally a child. Your parents are legally responsible for you. To say a child at this age is entirely accountable for their actions places a hugh responsibility and pressure on them, the likes of which I don't believe they can digest. Obviously the middleteens are a period of letting go for parents and child alike, but childhood is about making mistakes and still having the support to get past them with help, this is why I believe some responsibility lies with the parents in this matter, as they should be addressing why their children would go out and commit such a deed.
I have to disagree. A 14-year-old, and certainly a 16-year-old understands EXACTLY what they're doing when they pick up a gun and start shooting at people. They KNOW it's a crime unless they've been living underground their whole life, and they know that a gun can kill people. They are responsible for that action. Maybe their parents didn't raise them as best they could, but that doesn't mean the parents should be responsible for when their teenage child shoots a gun. Of course, that does change a bit if it was one of the parent's guns, but the kids are still primarily responsible.

Tamara

09-12-2003, 02:24 AM

childhood is about making mistakes and still having the support to get past them with help
Making mistakes like staying out too late, experimenting a bit too much, getting drunk once too many, failing your exams .. yes. Making mistakes like shooting people and killing them .. no. I'm sorry, there are some things you can't expect to do and then just look up and say 'Oops, sorry, my mistake' and be forgiven. At any age.

Also .. you keep talking about 'them'. We're 18 and 19, may I remind you, you're only two years older than one of them. And I'm sure you know perfectly well (and did two years ago) that killing people is not exactly a good thing and that it's going to get you in deep shit..

James

09-12-2003, 03:23 AM

I'm not debating any of that, that I'm still a child. That what they did was wrong, and criminal. But childhood is a learning experience. These guys will learn that if you do wrong, you must be punished, thus justice functions. But, at their age, I believe punishment is part of rehabilitation, as opposed to locking up a cell and throwing away the key.

Look at Columbine. There were two very sad, pathetic boys, that were rejected by everyone, including themselves. It is easy to blame them. It is even easier to blame games, the media, alcohol - whatever. The hard part is blaming ourselves. Blame a society in which gun access is as easy as buying said computer game. Blame a society in which violence is not monitored, where we have televised wars. Blame a society that allows entire continents to go starving, one generation to the next, while we waste the rainforests on our McPackaging.

Our society has become increasingly blameless. If you are asking two boys to take responsibility and accountabilty for their actions, I commend you. But it might be a better idea to ask the presidents, the leaders, the people - to take responsibility for their own actions, to give an example to children the world over.

twifkak

09-12-2003, 05:14 AM

You know, though extremely dumb, those kids did do something that requires a spark of genius: they blamed somebody completely arbitrarily, and the mainstream believed them.
Ah, but unlike the basement furnace, lighting the pilot light of genius is the easy part -- it's keeping it lit that's the challenge.

Man, I'm on a roll with this analogy crap!

Signed,
Devin "Master of Mixing Metaphors" Malarky

twifkak

09-12-2003, 05:24 AM

I'm not debating any of that, that I'm still a child. That what they did was wrong, and criminal. But childhood is a learning experience. These guys will learn that if you do wrong, you must be punished, thus justice functions. But, at their age, I believe punishment is part of rehabilitation, as opposed to locking up a cell and throwing away the key.
Sorry, the idea of prison as a source of rehabilitation is long gone. It seems it serves solely as a device to hand down retribution, as well as to keep the meanies off the streets for as long as the gov't can afford. It's sad, yes, but it's the truth. That isn't to say that they should have been tried as adults and gotten the death penalty. They're not the "meanies" we're after, and while, yes, we want to keep the victim's families happy (*sigh*) make an example, so that even less moral people don't think being young is a free license to killwe also don't want to *turn* them into violent evil bitches by letting GenPop corrupt their minds and orifices.

Yes, I agree that the US needs quite a few changes, both on a societal and a political level, but I'm quite a bit to the left of the general opinion over here, and it'd probably be much easier just to move.

pleto4_ryan

09-13-2003, 04:10 AM

mmm....teens are one of the most confused "species" in the world.

Firstly, just for the record, i find this act totally "stupidity", now let's go after that..

According to science a human character has been mostly builted until the age of 5...some new studies show the age of 3. I don't actually agree with this. But let's keep it as a fact. So these guys maybe had a heck bad childhood. It's common, parents making Huge mistakes with their children. SO they had bad base. The teen years are the big "bang" area of a person's life. It's where most of the ideas smack the brain, the teen wants to experience most of the thinks without even thinking the consicenses(drugs, smoking, drinking etc) . Mostly teens have a medium to good base from their parents so they keep a closer look to their actions so as not to do "illegal" thinks...
The problem is this. A grown up, has "learned" about life far more from a teen. He has the little "hair" that holds him from reality. But the teen mostly don't have those...thus the "Stupid" actions....Their brain isn't "Actually" made yet...they don't have the wise of a 21 "let's say" the age where a person is phycical, emotionally and "brainly" grown.
Teen are mostly the hand of their parents, their environment, their friends etc. More of the times they don't even thing. So can we truly and without any thought blame them for their faults or also blame, not only the parents...they are a piece of the puzzle, but also community etc?
I thing we should. But the thing is, the teens made the mistake, whose gonna be punished. Of course you can't punish the shop that selled the guns...but there are many meizures to be taken. Whatever we can say how "screw-up" this teens may-surely be, there is a much greated problem behind them. And yes, i believe they don't have the mind-action to identify their actions...maybe something happened in the home environment, or they show another teen making it without anyone stopping him and so they just re-plaied the scene...there are far more thinks to take into consideration...The topic "Are the teens' faults, their faults?" is huge... :rolleyes:

Tanukitsune

09-16-2003, 07:48 AM

Reminds me of a murder case several years back... A kid killed his family... And since his haircut was the same as the one from a characters from Final Fantasy (cant remember which) the media went wild with anti-game propaganda... :sad:
But...
The next day... they discovered that he read SATANIC BOOKS!
The media can change the story a lot with their "angles"
I think that videogames do not make you violent, it might be "the match that lights the fuse", but the TNT was put their by somebody else... (family, enviroment...)
I read that Penny Arcade strip where they let the kid have the console as a babysitter....
Its was the same for me... Except I also had a satelite dish... I grew up watching way too many cartoons and playing games non-stop!
Am I psycho? No!
I also read that playing video games has other effects....
-Being less emotional and sensitive: I am emotional wuss... I have cried (well, not cried, cried, but I guess it counts if your eyes are full of tears...) watching movies and even with books! ;(
-Being tired and irratable: I wake up at 5:00 to work for my father at a job I hate, so I can't blame the games...
-Short attention span, carlessness: Again I wake up very early... I am very carefull when I have slept more than 5 hours... :Z
If you find a 5 year old playing GTA, you can blame:
-The kid for doing something wrong...
-The parents for not caring/looking after the kid.
-The game seller/renter who gave the adult game to a minor.
But never the game itself!
But I guess I never had the "killer instinct" in me anyway...
When I played MGS2, I pointed a bad guy with my gun... He trembled with fear and begged, or something like that, I know he wasn't real and the gun was a tranquilazer.... :frown:
I'm from the land of Don Quixote! We know about people going crazy beacuse of some fictional fantasy!

Kingzjester

11-03-2003, 11:48 AM

Well, I'm reviving this thread with a little absurd bit I found:

My son was killed.
My son was killed last week when he found out his game didn't work..link (http://www.gamers.com/userreview/1168425)

This can't be true, it just sounds downright stupid...

Zack

11-03-2003, 04:30 PM

:(
In my own opinion, it's the two kid's faults. I simply can't understand what prompts this kind of behavior in young teenagers. More importantly, why were these two playing the Grand Theft Auto game. Aren't all of the games rated M for Mature? Honestly people, I love violent games, but these games are not for young people. The people who sell them these games really should check their ID's to see if they are eligible enough. But, it is also possible that they got the game on a Christmas, too. There are times when I read articles, and I just get frustrated. Young people, especially teenagers, should not play violent games, especially if it inspires them to do a crime. That's how I feel about this. It was both of the kid's faults, not Take Two!.

Zack

11-03-2003, 04:37 PM

Sorry, but I messed up on my earlier post. I meant to say that the kids could've gotten Grand Theft Auto as a gift for Christmas. There, I said it.

Jake

11-03-2003, 06:51 PM

America is stupid, but the rest of the world is pretty fucked up too. Just thought I'd say that.

Also, Michael Moore does some great things, but he's clearly out to make a buck, which makes some of what he says very hard if impossible to take at face value. As long as you realize that both you and the subjects of the film (as in both the subjects being discussed and the actual people in the movie) are being completely 100% manipulated by Moore you're probably okay.

That's all. So off topic. Man. Oh well.