Irony

[BacardiJim]

I know that this little comment will seem redundant to some of you, but am I the only one who sees irony in the following fact?

There are several concurrently active threads going on here in the forum. In some of them, people are justifying their piracy and/or use of abandonware because the classic games they want can no longer be purchased legally. They believe that, given the unavailability of the games on the open market, it is acceptable to break copyright laws and obtain illegal copies.

On the other hand, there is a thread going on in which people brag about the size of their collections and how they are holding on to a lot of classic games (a lot of which will never be played again) merely so they can admire the boxes or flaunt the fact that they own these games. ("Oh, I will replay them ALL over and over so I don't dare get rid of a single one.")

One would have to be blind to not see the connection.

[Mimus]

I know that this little comment will seem redundant to some of you, but am I the only one who sees irony in the following fact?

There are several concurrently active threads going on here in the forum. In some of them, people are justifying their piracy and/or use of abandonware because the classic games they want can no longer be purchased legally. They believe that, given the unavailability of the games on the open market, it is acceptable to break copyright laws and obtain illegal copies.

On the other hand, there is a thread going on in which people brag about the size of their collections and how they are holding on to a lot of classic games (a lot of which will never be played again) merely so they can admire the boxes or flaunt the fact that they own these games. ("Oh, I will replay them ALL over and over so I don't dare get rid of a single one.")

One would have to be blind to not see the connection.

I wouldn't necessarily say this is irony. The two sides you are talking about, represent two different types of gamer and their mindsets.

On the one hand, there are people who want to play and try out older, rarer adventure games, but they are unable to find legal copies of them, and so resort to downloading them as 'abandonware'.

The other side, represents the mindset of a 'collector', who will hoard classic games, even if they have no intention to play them ever again.

There's no irony in those two facts, just two different points of view of gamers and classic rare games.

[BacardiJim]

The irony is in both threads being active at the same time, since it is those very "collectors" who are providing the very justification the "pirates" claim for their actions.

[colpet]

I am guilty of being a collector, but in my defense, I regularly loan out my games to internet gaming friends.

[MaryScots]

I am guilty of being a collector, but in my defense, I regularly loan out my games to internet gaming friends.

Same with me and besides that it is even possible to borrow them from public libraries, at least here in Germany.

BTW, a huge request for classic games could always be a good and even profitable reason to re-release them (given the fact that there are no legal issues to be dealt with, copyright problems or whatsoever...). It's only a shame that the best way to find out which re-release could be worth it might be the quantity of downloads from abandonware sites... :eek:

But I do reject the indirect accusation of being kind of a piracy promoter just because I like to keep my valued stuff :P

[BacardiJim]

I have, in fact, borrowed a game from Colpet. To toss a bit more irony on the fire, I did so because I needed to review a game that I used to own but had passed on (sold or gave away--can't remember). For REAL irony, it was a game I had originally recommended to Colpet and helped her find in the first place. :D

[stepurhan]

As BacardiJim's latest post shows, not keeping your old games can be a double-edged sword. Sure, you're keeping the supply of legitimate copies up, but if you want (or need) to play that game again it's just not there any more.

My wife collects Girl's Own school stories and the collector phenomenon is a similar problem there. Some books had quite small original print runs and so the supply is low and prices are high. A sort of piracy exists in that, so people without the book can still read the story, Word documents typed up from the original books have been known to circulate. Fortunately these publishers (http://www.rockterrace.demon.co.uk/GGBP/) have managed to obtain the rights to a lot of the most popular series so people now have a chance to get legitimate copies. (Owning one myself I can say they're high quality as well)

Would something like this be practical for classic games. A small company obtaining the rights to old popular games and re-releasing them in small quantities advertised through sites like this one?

[timcclayton]

I am a representative of the La Rue English Dictionary team, and I would kindly ask all members of this thread to immediately cease using the word irony - you're wearing it out so kindly stop it. :pan:

Irony n.s. Made or consisting of iron; partaking of iron; iron; as, irony chains; irony particles.

Most games are more plasticky than irony...so let's start a thread about that instead.

Yours,
Brigadier Zoe La Rue (deceased)

[IMAGE removed, shame on you people, for not reporting this to us]

[timcclayton]

Would something like this be practical for classic games. A small company obtaining the rights to old popular games and re-releasing them in small quantities advertised through sites like this one?

This has of course been done (Sold Out Software, Kixx and Xplosiv to name but a few) and this included Broken Sword 1 & 2 as well as The Longest Journey and probably other AGs that I can't remember right now.

I am surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

[Tanukitsune]

I know that this little comment will seem redundant to some of you, but am I the only one who sees irony in the following fact?

There are several concurrently active threads going on here in the forum. In some of them, people are justifying their piracy and/or use of abandonware because the classic games they want can no longer be purchased legally. They believe that, given the unavailability of the games on the open market, it is acceptable to break copyright laws and obtain illegal copies.

On the other hand, there is a thread going on in which people brag about the size of their collections and how they are holding on to a lot of classic games (a lot of which will never be played again) merely so they can admire the boxes or flaunt the fact that they own these games. ("Oh, I will replay them ALL over and over so I don't dare get rid of a single one.")

One would have to be blind to not see the connection.
Oi! I've played nearly 90% of all my adventure collection!

The people who say "I can't find it" don't look hard enough...
With a bit of patience you find any game unless there were very few copies of that game in the first place...

The only adventures I haven't been able to find yet are VERY VERY old IF games...

Ebay has a feature that can notfiy you when something you were searching for has been put on auction, so all you need is pacience, and depending on the rarity anything from 5-200$... :P

I once knew a guy that said he pirated games because they were expensive...
I told him I found a place where they had a game he wanted for 20$, he thought 20 bucks was outrageously high! :frusty:

I don't borrow games, the last few times I did that, they never returned them... :shifty:

So unless you're looking for the Colossal Cave Adventure or a TRS-80 game, you don't really have an excuse...

Although I admit that sometimes I have to visit abandonware sites when my 5.25" drive is down and I can't play the really old games I actually own, but AFAIK, that is one of the few ocasions when it IS legal to download them... :confused:

[Jake]

Although I admit that sometimes I have to visit abandonware sites when my 5.25" drive is down and I can't play the really old games I actually own, but AFAIK, that is one of the few ocasions when it IS legal to download them... :confused:

Not so much legal as it is justifyable to look the other way.

[gillyruless]

I am a representative of the La Rue English Dictionary team, and I would kindly ask all members of this thread to immediately cease using the word irony - you're wearing it out so kindly stop it. :pan:

Irony n.s. Made or consisting of iron; partaking of iron; iron; as, irony chains; irony particles.

Most games are more plasticky than irony...so let's start a thread about that instead.

Yours,
Brigadier Zoe La Rue (deceased)


Dear Sir,

I wish to complain on the stronglyest possible terms about the previous entry on this thread about adventure games being plasticky. Some of my best friends are adventure games, and only a FEW of them are plasticky.


Yours faithfully,
Brigadier Sir Charles Arthur Strong, Mrs.


P.S. I have never kissed the editor of the Radio Times and only few of my friends are transvestites.

[gillyruless]

This has of course been done (Sold Out Software, Kixx and Xplosiv to name but a few) and this included Broken Sword 1 & 2 as well as The Longest Journey and probably other AGs that I can't remember right now.

I am surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

I'm guessing that the companies figure that there's just not much money to be made in rereleasing classic games. They'd rather "protect" the franchise and try to milk money out of it by releasing new games based on the franchise a la LSL:MCL.

[VoodooFX]

Maybe we're not giving away our old games, because we've spent great deal of time, money and effort in hunting them down. i know i would never sell my copy of floppy boxed version of Monkey Island, if i owned one, not even for 1000$, ok maybe i would for 1000$ since i could buy another one from ebay eventually.

I think we all agree that old games are ridiculously expensive on eBay, so i don't see how would getting such game on 'abandon ware' sites hurt anyone. If i couldn't download it from there, i surely wouldn't pay hundreds of dollars for it on eBay.

I'm not saying downloading is right thing to do, but i would never point a finger at someone who downloaded let's say Zak McKracken from such a site.
Another good thing to point out: Many of PC users don't even own a floppy drive anymore, so buying an old game on floppies would be kind of silly :)

[MDMaster]

Still I don't understand why gaming companies don't start rereleasing old adventures and making 'em compatible with XP. How much do you think a 'revamped' Gabriel Knight 2 would sell? I'd bet it would sell, and much. That's why the Bad Mojo rerelease was such a good news, those games don't deserve to be pirated, but rather to be bought and enjoyed so that people can remember.
And maybe some guys can rethink their 'economic' choices...


p.s.
VoodooFx, wouldn't you happen to own MI2's original disks too, huh? :D

[Wormsie]

Ownership is theft.

[Tanukitsune]

Not so much legal as it is justifyable to look the other way.
And I thought I was the strict one... :P

[SakSquash]

As a supporter of abandonware sites, I agree with you. What I do with my games is that I buy them (if I can find them), play them, copy them, and sell the originals back out so that other people can play them. And I usually sell them back for pretty cheap, because I know what it's like to want to buy a game, but wont because they want over $50 claiming it's a collectors item. You may call me a criminal for copying them, but I don't sell the copies. I file them away in my library and perhaps i'll play them later, or maybe i wont. The point is the option is there. As far as abandonware, look, if they don't rerelease it, in a bundle or alone at a resonable price, then I think it should be free to download.

Though, in my post, I found a solution to this problem. If whoever owned the rights to the games offered them as a download that you can pay for, say $5 or so, then we all win. Because A) Their costs for distrabution is low. They have to pay for the webspace and the bandwidth, but with people pay $5 or so per download, i'm sure they'd make a profit. They'd save on packaging and paying for discs and they don't have to kick any back to retailers. We all win, and I think we'd all agree that paying $5 for a great game is well worth it.

[ADVENTURE-RAIDER]

I know that this little comment will seem redundant to some of you, but am I the only one who sees irony in the following fact?

There are several concurrently active threads going on here in the forum. In some of them, people are justifying their piracy and/or use of abandonware because the classic games they want can no longer be purchased legally. They believe that, given the unavailability of the games on the open market, it is acceptable to break copyright laws and obtain illegal copies.

On the other hand, there is a thread going on in which people brag about the size of their collections and how they are holding on to a lot of classic games (a lot of which will never be played again) merely so they can admire the boxes or flaunt the fact that they own these games. ("Oh, I will replay them ALL over and over so I don't dare get rid of a single one.")

One would have to be blind to not see the connection.

I don't agree with the statement: "classic games can no longer be purchased legally." :confused:
For the past 2 years I have been trying to find all these lost treasures (only older/classic adventure games that you cannot find sold in stores or online stores) and I have found 90% so far of what I wanted and I'm still looking. I found classic adventure games in their original boxes and format with their original documentation and manuals on EBAY, AMAZON, CD-ACCESS, UBID, YAHOO AUCTIONS, GARAGE SALES, etc......
Yes, there are some occasions where I paid a lot for a game, but that is another topic. Bottom line is if you want to find a classic adventure game or any game, first you got to look and then come to the conclusion that you cannot find it...LEGALLY...
So, I think by stating that "classic games can no longer be purchased legally." it is just an excuse for getting software/games illegaly and that is something that I personally will never do and shame to those who do. :(

[ADVENTURE-RAIDER]

Still I don't understand why gaming companies don't start rereleasing old adventures and making 'em compatible with XP. How much do you think a 'revamped' Gabriel Knight 2 would sell? I'd bet it would sell, and much. That's why the Bad Mojo rerelease was such a good news, those games don't deserve to be pirated, but rather to be bought and enjoyed so that people can remember.
And maybe some guys can rethink their 'economic' choices...


p.s.
VoodooFx, wouldn't you happen to own MI2's original disks too, huh? :D

Ohh, by the way MDMaster, where can I buy "BAD MOJO"?

[gillyruless]

Ohh, by the way MDMaster, where can I buy "BAD MOJO"?

It's not out yet.

Per Amazon, it will be released on 11/20.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006AAOJQ/qid=1100211150/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl65/002-1029185-1553652?v=glance&s=software&n=507846

You can pre-order it from Got Games too:

http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry11?xid=40565&sp=10007&PN=1&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0

But they charge $ 7.45 for S&H!

The price at both place is $19.99.

More info on the game here:

http://www.gotgameentertainment.com/badmojo/index.html

It's so coll that they have a link to the AG interview Laura did on the Bad Mojo site at Got Games. :D

[MDMaster]

Well Adv-Raider, you can find the 'original' big boxed version on eBay at a very reasonable price. Or at least was reasonable the last time I looked, I got mine from a shop for less than 15$.

[gillyruless]

Well Adv-Raider, you can find the 'original' big boxed version on eBay at a very reasonable price. Or at least was reasonable the last time I looked, I got mine from a shop for less than 15$.

Unless you want the original release for collecting purposes, I'd get the rerelease. The improvements in the new release was discussed in the Alex Louie interview:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,430

[docweasel]

naughty naughty


I am a representative of the La Rue English Dictionary team, and I would kindly ask all members of this thread to immediately cease using the word irony - you're wearing it out so kindly stop it. :pan:

Irony n.s. Made or consisting of iron; partaking of iron; iron; as, irony chains; irony particles.

Most games are more plasticky than irony...so let's start a thread about that instead.

Yours,
Brigadier Zoe La Rue (deceased)

[IMAGE removed, shame on you people, for not reporting this to us]

:pan:

[docweasel]

naughty naughty
[IMAGE removed, shame on you people, for not reporting this to us]

:pan:

The pic is usually enough to get anyone's attention, no need to report. Don't leech images from other servers. The admins of this site shouldn't allow it. It is stealing bandwidth which = $$$ from other sites. Leech from our server and you get the butt. Next time you might not be so lucky, you might get goatse man. Rightclick the image, SAVE, then upload it to your own server. Don't hotlink.

Or it gets the hose.

[VoodooFX]

I did check this thread i even wrote a post in it, but it takes for images to load on my link, so i didn't notice it back then, now that i've seen it in people's quotes, i've searched for original post containing the picture and removed it. In case of future such events, i urge all our members to notify us immediately. Thank you.

[fov]

Docweasel, if you had reported to a mod or an admin that a post here was hotlinking to your site and you wanted the image removed, we would have removed it. We have no way to keep track of whether images are hosted on the poster's own server or someone else's -- unless the issue is reported to us.

Granted, your way got the picture removed too, but if you'd brought it to a mod's attention we would have taken care of it without any need for things to get nasty.

-emily

[docweasel]

No, you're wrong. You shouldn't allow hotlinking at all. Its easy to disable. Its stealing and some websites may not have the capability to see who and where their bandwidth is leaking from and they get huge bills because of it. How would you like it if I linked some large images from this forum on our frontpage? We get 10k uniques a day. It adds up.

If I reported it, then it would just be removed anonymously and no point would have been made. We do this kind of thing daily to make a very graphic and memorable point that when you hotlink you are stealing. Maybe through ignorance, maybe through laziness or malice, but it all comes out the same. I find this method rather effective. We have a very low recidivism rate on hotlinkers once they get the butt.

I'll be leaving now, thanks for you time ;)
-dw


Docweasel, if you had reported to a mod or an admin that a post here was hotlinking to your site and you wanted the image removed, we would have removed it. We have no way to keep track of whether images are hosted on the poster's own server or someone else's -- unless the issue is reported to us.

Granted, your way got the picture removed too, but if you'd brought it to a mod's attention we would have taken care of it without any need for things to get nasty.

-emily

[tabacco]

Welcome to the internet, docweasel. People link images, and if you don't like it, you should take care of it at your server. Expecting the entire rest of the internet to play by your rules is ridiculous.

[crabapple]

The irony is in both threads being active at the same time, since it is those very "collectors" who are providing the very justification the "pirates" claim for their actions.

If you're talking about old DOS games, I have some of those that I wouldn't sell. When I want to play them I download abandonware versions because they're cracked. That way I don't have to fool around with some map that's falling apart or squint at symbols through red plastic every time I want to start the game. Mostly I buy old DOS games for the contents of the box itself, the various reading materials they used to include in old games and other extras. I don't buy them for the games.

[Toefur]

Wait... so because we don't want to sell our treasured original boxed versions of classic games, that we love and adore, and get out to admire every now and then... we're to blame for people pirating old adventure games? :confused: Cool.

[Kolorabi]

After a very pleasant experience that I had a few days ago, I'd like to thank the abandonware scene in general, and a select group of abandonware webmasters in particular. Here's the story:

Me and a friend of mine used to play all kinds of games together, but as we're getting older our multiplayer habits have suffered due to this horrible thing they call Real Life. This weekend, though, he came over for a visit and things were nearly like they used to be. At one point, one of us brought up a game we used to play, called Capitalism+. It's basically a serious tycoon-style game where the goal is to make as much money as possible, and you get a huge amount of freedom in deciding just how to make that money. It also has a two-player mode, which used to keep us occupied for days even though it was slightly flawed (the game is in real-time, and when you're not playing, the computer AI makes decisions for you.. quite often stupid decisions).

Anyway, we decided to have a look at the game again. I found the box, inserted the CD and started the installation program. Then I got a message saying "This game needs Windows 95". Bummer. I couldn't install, because my OS is Windows 2000.

Instead of giving up, though, I searched for the game on some abandonware sites, and finally found it at a french one. I downloaded, unpacked and started the game, and there were no problems at all. Everything went smooth, and as I had the CD in the drive, I even got the "great" music. We thought we were just going to have a look at the game for nostalgia's sake, but it actually grabbed us just like it had all those years ago. We spent hours building up our business empires and had a fantastic night.

So, if you happen to be an abandonware webmaster who has Capitalism+ on your site, thank you! While I might not have downloaded the game from your site, it could just as easily have been your site that had saved the day for us.