Native dialects

[Robert_Cath]

Do you know of any other game (except TLE) where you can hear the native dialects of characters?
I was so disapointed while playing Broken Sword 3, because people in France, don't have France accents in words. I think that it adds fun and enjoyment to your play.
What do you think about it?

[mszv]

I have a different opinion. If the person is supposed to be a native speaker of their language, I think that they should speak as a native speaker of the language. So, if people are supposed to be speaking French, and I am listening to it in English, I should hear them speak without a French accent. It seems unrealistic to me if you do it any way - it's as if they weren't fluent speakers in their own language. I also think it makes them sound jokey and silly, if you do it any other way.

Sometimes you see a trend in movies, doing it like that, though sadly, not often enough.

[Erwin_Br]

Hmmm, that depends. You can do it in a very subtle way.

--Erwin

[Robert_Cath]

I have a different opinion. If the person is supposed to be a native speaker of their language, I think that they should speak as a native speaker of the language. So, if people are supposed to be speaking French, and I am listening to it in English, I should hear them speak without a French accent. It seems unrealistic to me if you do it any way - it's as if they weren't fluent speakers in their own language. I also think it makes them sound jokey and silly, if you do it any other way.

Sometimes you see a trend in movies, doing it like that, though sadly, not often enough.

Yeah, but they should've done something to Broken Sword 3. It seems very unrealistic that that lady at Mountfaçon speaks English perfectly. I don't know, maybe there is some other way, but it's the best if the characters speak they native dialect, but I guess that it's expensive

[timcclayton]

Although I am probably in a minority, I am quite happy with subtitles and the actors speaking in their native tongue, but the best way would be to build the various options into the game itself so that the player could choose how they want the game presented to them.

[mszv]

Well, the thing is, if the person is supposed to be speaking in their native language, no matter how subtle you do the accent, that person does not sound like they are a native speaker of their language. There's just no way around it. It ends up being some sort of fakey way of representing the way you think they speak, in their native language. Also, the perfectly fluent speaker of a language that was not their first language, that person would not have an accent.

As you can tell, I absolutely hate it, the accent when you want to pretend that the person is speaking another language by making them speak with an accent. It's also an "old school" way of doing something - the new trend seems to be to not do the accent thing.

There's a really nifty way to do this - I think it was done in a movie, but I'll have to go check. You start by having the characters speak in the "foreign" language, and you might include subtitles. You do this at the beginning of the movie (I've never seen this in a game). They you smoothly seg into the characters speaking in native speaker English. It's such a wonderful way to do it - you've introduced the idea that they are speaking in another language, and then you seg into the mindset that suddenly your movie viewers perfectly understand the other language - it's not "foreign" at all - it's also your native language!

Now I'll have to go find the movie where they did that.

I think there is something to be said for subtitles and keeping the original language, in a game, though I think it can distance the viewer.

[LauraMac]

I am quite happy with subtitles and the actors speaking in their native tongue

I agree. I am playing a german version of Moment of Silence, with english subtitles and I love it. For one the actors have gorgous voices to just listen to. After a very short bit it is like foreign films with subtitles (which I always preferred to over dubbing) you read the words so rapidly I always forget I am hearing another language and go with the cadences.

There are so many great games, of the mystery/suspense variety that were produced in Germany, I think if some were made available with a sub-title option I would defnitely get them. ALthough it is great to have a game localized, that only has merit where it is done well. And doing it "well" does not always come cheap. How many good games were spoiled by poor localization? Might have been better just to sub-title them.

[lumi]

Now I'll have to go find the movie where they did that.
I remember The Hunt for Red October doing this.

[Erwin_Br]

I don't like the sound of every language, though. I can't stand the German language, because it sounds kinda 'harsh', if you know what I mean. Can't listen to Asian languages for too long, either, because to me it sounds like a baby language. No offense :P (Truth is, I'm not too charmed about the sound of our own Dutch language either) :D

French and Spanish, on the other hand, are okay.

--Erwin

[Fienepien]

There are so many great games, of the mystery/suspense variety that were produced in Germany, I think if some were made available with a sub-title option I would defnitely get them.

Any examples?

ALthough it is great to have a game localized, that only has merit where it is done well. And doing it "well" does not always come cheap. How many good games were spoiled by poor localization? Might have been better just to sub-title them.

I take it you're talking about the American market. Isn't true for every country. In Germany subtitles would not sell as well as dubbed games, because Germans are used to having their films and games dubbed.

[Fienepien]

the best way would be to build the various options into the game itself so that the player could choose how they want the game presented to them.

That would be very expensive and translations are at the bottom of the publisher's list as it is.

[mag]

Well, it kind of depends on the effect you want to have. If you want to be completely realistic, then you might do something like have the characters speak in their native language and put subtitles at the bottom. But maybe you don't want to be completely realistic. Maybe what you want to do is create for the player the impression of what this group of people sounds like. In another thread I joked about how all ancient Romans have a British accent. It's funny if you think about it that way because Romans obviously didn't have British accents. But in all seriousness, it does create an impression of the way a Roman would have sounded to the ear of a person living in ancient Rome. A Roman accent carried with it an air of propriety and sophistication, just like the accent of, for instance, somebody from London sounds to modern Americans. So even though it's not realistic, it still gives the person listening an accurate impression of what that person would have sounded like. But if you made them sound the way they realistically should sound, a modern audience wouldn't pick up on the subtleties of what's being said.

mag

[Henke]

I am totally against that a character who should be french (or whatever) talks with a perfect english accent.

[jjacob]

I am totally against that a character who should be french (or whatever) talks with a perfect english accent...Nico Collard :P

[mszv]

I remember The Hunt for Red October doing this.

That was it - thank you!

I still think this was the most absolutely perfect way to get the idea across that people were speaking fluently in another language, and that you could understand it.

It's interesting how they do it with Grim Fandango. Manny Calaveros does not speak with a fake Mexican accent. He speaks in fluent English, but it is a US English Hispanic accent (dialect) - seems southern California sort of hispanic to me, but I'm no expert on that. (Linguistic thing here - everyone has a dialect, there is no such thing as anyone speaking without a regional dialect). The actor is Hispanic, though he is, I believe, of Cuban descent, not Mexican descent. This is such a wonderful, creative and respectful way to do it. You get the feeling of a Mexican heritage, but Manny is speaking fluent English, and a real accent, not a fakey one.

On the Roman actors speaking in British accents - I thought that was because the people who played many of those characters were English. If not, is it the idea that the Romans had an empire, as well as the English? It does seem sort of funny that people in those movies all speak in those educated, cultured tones, regardless of their social class. I'm also not sure that Latin was the language that the "Ancient Romans" used when they wanted to speak in a "cultured" way. Wasn't it Greek? I'll have to go ask my classics and history friend.

[mag]

On the Roman actors speaking in British accents - I thought that was because the people who played many of those characters were English. If not, is it the idea that the Romans had an empire, as well as the English? It does seem sort of funny that people in those movies all speak in those educated, cultured tones, regardless of their social class. I'm also not sure that Latin was the language that the "Ancient Romans" used when they wanted to speak in a "cultured" way. Wasn't it Greek? I'll have to go ask my classics and history friend.

Yeah, the reason they do it is because the actors were British. We could change that now, but it seems to be kind of an unbreakable trend at this point. I was simply suggesting that it's not as inaccurate as people may think. Because the associations connected to the accent a Roman citizen would have spoke with probably would have been very similar to the way we think of English accents.

mag

[MDMaster]

The thing that really bothers me is when in games dubbed in italian, every character speaks with a different dialect (here we have 20 regions, each one has it's own dialect more or less, Sardegna has it's own language I would say). For example the Crocodile Golf guy in Sam & Max spoke like he was coming from Rome, the upside down woman at the Vortex like she was from Venice and so on. REAAAAALLY annoying, they loooooove doing that in games and movies too, sometimes.

(btw, I still think Sam & Max was the best italian dubbing I ever heard, and that's kinda worrying)

[Two birds]

A friend of mine in Toronto, whose parents are from Hong Kong, thought it was great to hear random people on the streets of Hong Kong in Deus Ex (1) say to your character, "Hey, white boy" in Cantonese. I really liked it too, even if I didn't understand it.

Personally, I'm a slow reader and paying attention to subtitles means I pay less attention to everything else. I know accents can be atrocious and dialects make native speakers confused, but assuming it's not mocking, you only need to get the point across. ("Oh, this person is French.") I'm sure it goes for American accents/dialects as well. I think most companies have to do the best they can when it comes to localization.

Can't listen to Asian languages for too long, either, because to me it sounds like a baby language. No offense :P

This is a little insulting, but it does go both ways. I've heard it said by someone from China that Western languages sound like barking dogs, and my Thai girlfriend complimented me on my very impressive butchering of vowels. :)

[timcclayton]

Now I'll have to go find the movie where they did that.

I think "The Hunt for Red Oktober" used that, didn't it ?

But going back to the topic, I don't want to hear an American accent on a non-American person. Or a British accent on a non-British person. I want a German character to sound authentic - if this means having a German accent but speaking English or speaking in German and having English subtitles, fair enough. And in an ideal world, I would like the choice of either (much as many DVDs offer these days) from the options menu in the game.

[timcclayton]

On the Roman actors speaking in British accents - I thought that was because the people who played many of those characters were English. If not, is it the idea that the Romans had an empire, as well as the English?

I agree completely, but can you imagine someone from South Carolina doing the accent instead ???! Or a New Yorker ?! These accents are fine and there's nothing wrong with them, but imagine dubbing Hamlet in a cinema with either of these accents - you'd turn it into a comedy overnight!

It has certainly nothing to do with empires - more likely classical acting training being the backbone of many trained British actors (Olivier, Gielgud, even Patrick Stewart in STTNG!) and classical training will naturally involve Shakespeare and many of Shakespeare's works were based on the much earlier times (Julius Caesar, Anthony and Cleopatra etc.)

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that classical films have always had classical accents, because the actors were often classically trained.

[Fop]

I agree completely, but can you imagine someone from South Carolina doing the accent instead ???! Or a New Yorker ?! These accents are fine and there's nothing wrong with them, but imagine dubbing Hamlet in a cinema with either of these accents - you'd turn it into a comedy overnight!

Hamlet should speak with a Danish accent :P

[timcclayton]

Hamlet should speak with a Danish accent :P

Correct :D

[mszv]

There are lots of varied ways of doing Shakespeare - unusual casting, changing the time period, all that. Happens all the time.

[timcclayton]

There are lots of varied ways of doing Shakespeare - unusual casting, changing the time period, all that. Happens all the time.


Ah yes, but that is only a recent fad (Kenneth Brannagh etc.)