Adventure Gamers - Forums

Origami - 01 October 2014 04:40 PM

I don’t see the issue with the inclusion of the mini-games. They make up…what? 3% of the game? And someone mentioned they’re skippable as well? Don’t really see what all the fuss is about.

They were the main challenge in Testament of Sherlock Holmes. It’s likely they will be again in Crimes & Punishments.

The problem is not that some gamers are stuck in the past, but that for Frogwares challenge is unfashionable and the choice for them is between returning to the gameplay of The Awakened/Nemesis or removing obstacles altogether in favor of skippable minigames. This is just another misconception in a long line that belongs with other misconceptions such as ‘point & click is dead’, ‘only 3D graphics sell these days’, and ‘Myst killed adventure games’.

In Sherlock Holmes: Crimes & Punishments the deduction board gives you this ability, which ultimately leads to a number of different conclusions to each case.

Ehh….kind of disappointed about this though…. I am not one for multiple conclusions when it is in the context of a murder mystery. What is the point of trying to find out the truth if you can choose your own.

Well, there is only one RIGHT answer, and apparently it’s optional whether or not you want t to be told if you made the right decision. I rather like that.

I thought that Testament was much stronger than Awakened and Nemesis in design, if not always writing or execution, for the most part, even if it was less challenging and had a weak resolution to the plot, simply because it removed a lot of the time-wasting nonsense in those games. I never even bothered finishing Awakened because of the maddening insistence on pixel-hunting in 3D, and Nemesis had a ridiculous number of filler puzzles and arbitrary barriers.

I don’t play a Sherlock Holmes game to test my eyesight; if I wanted that, I’d play a hidden object game. I play it to solve a mystery in a well-designed period setting, and Testament mostly did well on that count (for a certain value of “solve” and “mystery”).

Testament held my hand too much, but at least it didn’t send me on too many “spot the one vaguely important item in a room of random items you cannot interact with” tangents.

I wouldn’t classify ANY of the Frogwares games as “classic mystery adventures” in any positive sense of the word “classic.” That honor goes to Infocom’s Suspect, or Witness, or even possibly Sierra’s The Colonel’s Bequest (which gave little challenge and sketchy writing, but an incredible amount of freedom.)

That’s not to say that the Frogwares games are ever really bad adventures, they just tend to have a lot of rough patches, and their writing runs out of steam near the end - though I’ll admit one of the last twists in Nemesis was fantastic.

A.A - 02 October 2014 05:03 PM

Well, there is only one RIGHT answer, and apparently it’s optional whether or not you want t to be told if you made the right decision. I rather like that.

Then it’s fine I guess.

WitchOfDoubt - 03 October 2014 02:05 AM

I thought that Testament was much stronger than Awakened and Nemesis in design, if not always writing or execution, for the most part, even if it was less challenging and had a weak resolution to the plot, simply because it removed a lot of the time-wasting nonsense in those games. I never even bothered finishing Awakened because of the maddening insistence on pixel-hunting in 3D, and Nemesis had a ridiculous number of filler puzzles and arbitrary barriers.

I don’t play a Sherlock Holmes game to test my eyesight; if I wanted that, I’d play a hidden object game. I play it to solve a mystery in a well-designed period setting, and Testament mostly did well on that count (for a certain value of “solve” and “mystery”).

Come now… whatever criticisms of Nemesis you have (I have a few of my own), figuring out the riddles was by far the greatest and most Holmes-ian challenge in a Sherlock Holmes game, including Serrated Scalpel. You were required to do what Holmes would do himself in the books - and it was difficult but rewarding. It was much more than an eyesight test or hidden object finding. I have a feeling you gave up trying to solve the riddles and used a walkthrough instead.

Time-wasting nonsense? Yep - lock-picking, mini-games of checkers, and running around as a dog all qualify.

Playing as Holmes takes away some of the fun of the stories. The stories don’t lend themselves to games where you play Holmes. You’re supposed to be in awe of how Holmes deduces everything nearly without fail. Holmes is supposed to be like a superhuman person, but if you’re playing him and struggling with the puzzles or succeeding in solving easy puzzles, then it just doesn’t feel like Holmes.

OrionO - 03 October 2014 05:00 AM

Playing as Holmes takes away some of the fun of the stories. The stories don’t lend themselves to games where you play Holmes. You’re supposed to be in awe of how Holmes deduces everything nearly without fail. Holmes is supposed to be like a superhuman person, but if you’re playing him and struggling with the puzzles or succeeding in solving easy puzzles, then it just doesn’t feel like Holmes.

Extremely off-topic but this is why I enjoyed MGS2 so much contrary to most fans. The change in protagonist allowed players to view Snake from anoter perspective. You got to play as a rookie soldier who teams up with the legendary Solid Snake. It immediately reminded me of the storytelling method in the SH stories. I think in the documentary the developer himself explicitely mentioned SH as the inspiration for what they were trying to convey.

The problem is, playing as Watson doesn’t seem to appeal either. Who wants to run around performing errands for the Great Detective? If they could somehow involve him more, maybe. It would need a very good writer, perhaps even Conan-Doyle himself.

Oscar - 03 October 2014 07:42 AM

perhaps even Conan-Doyle himself.

Actually, Conan-Doyle wasn’t that great of a writer.