Diamonds in The Rough

[VOLKANA]

Just starting playing this game today and i just can't stop... Very interesting story and very interesting gameplay... Sure the graphics aren't so good but in my point of view a game don't need super graphics to be nice... I didn't expect to find my self stuck in front of my PC for almost 5 hours... and still counting...:D

[tsa]

Cool, I will have to order that game one day.

[cw2381]

I ordered this game as soon as I saw it was available. I have to say it was a huge step insofar as indie adventure games is concerned. I have enjoyed games like Shady Brook and Al Emmo very much. They had the length and were enjoyable, but lacked slightly in things like voice acting just a bit. On the Other Dave Gilbert's games : The Shivah, The Blackwell Legacy, and Blackwell Unbound all had superb voice acting but were a bit too short.

DITR had everything -- the story, the voice acting, the length, etc............ it is definitely a bar that can be used to judge future indies.

[alkis21]

Thank you for your kind words.

As some people mentioned that they wished to read some reviews before deciding on buying the game, I'd like you to know that this page (http://www.atropos-studios.com/diamonds.html) has the links of the four reviews that have been posted so far (to my knowledge).

An AG reviewer has also received the game so I'm eagerly waiting to read his/her opinion as well in the future.

[PhoenixWrong]

Any plans for a print version? :)

[sue3737]

I have played quite a few of these type of adventures now, Shady Brook, The arrangement, Lifestream, the Carol reed games and more... I would never have heard of any of them if it wasn't for sites like this one and other adventure game sites. I have enjoyed them all very much....some more than the big commercial games so this one is next on my list to buy!

[alkis21]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a print version? I don't know the term.

[PhoenixWrong]

I mean a physical copy that that would be sold in stores rather than a download :)

[Jackal]

The version available is a physical copy, not a download, though it's not sold in stores.

[alkis21]

What Jackal said.

[heodox]

If you don't mind me asking, how many copies have you sold? I'm developing the game myself so this be a nice piece of information. If you don't want to say in public you can send me a PM.

[alkis21]

It's too early for any kind of conclusions. Feel free to ask me again in a few months.

[heodox]

It's too early for any kind of conclusions. Feel free to ask me again in a few months.

ok, thanks.

[cw2381]

Just completed DITR recently. I can't wait to see the next thing that Atropos has in store for the adventure gaming public.

[MikaelS]

I just finished the demo...and wow, I must say I am impressed. In my opinion ( basing on Demo) this game looks VERY promising...I don't mean this by indie game standards only, but this looks very interesting story even by commercial standards, and even from serious commercial games I've played recently, I can only say that Culpa Innata has got me hooked so early, just like DITR did. Very well written.

Voice acting seems very good and professional, same with the music.

My only gripe is...the game ( again, just demo) seems so professional and well polished in every area, that's why I find walking animation unacceptable, because minor flaw like this amongst the brilliance the game otherwise seems to be just seems bit ridiculous and out of place. Either way, walking animation doesn't make the game, but story, characters, music etc does...just had to throw critic there which in my opinion kinda stands out. :)

The thought box is great, it's been getting boring to just mess with your inventory. Thought idea gives a whole new dimension to AG, I might try to use that kind of system in one of my future games ( once I finally finish my 2nd and 'serious attempt' :) )


Very well done. I can't wait to play this, the demo got me interested in story which is job very well done there as well.

[nikolas]

Mikael,

Thank you for your interest. :)

The animation and character art is mostly a budget issue, as far as I know, and hopefully next game should have these corrected! Animation has been slightly improved in the full game rather the demo, but still I won't lie it still stands out.

Hopefully all the rest elements of the game should be enough to keep your interested. For the record, I composed all music for the game so I can't be 100% unbiased. But still the story is very interesting, gameplay and puzzles range to various difficulties (and there already is the 'official' walkthrouh in JA+) and the atmosphere, is very well thought out I think. I should also add that voice acting is quite excellent in 90% of the game! And the English (since alkis (and me) are Greeks) is superb (something which I've been amazed in all honesty!)

Again, I've worked for the game so I can't be unbiased, but it does seem that the 4 reviews, thus far seem to agree on most parts. :)

[ssa]

(since alkis (and me) are Greeks)

And here me thinking Alkis was swedish (alkis = short for alkoholist = alcoholic) :D

Shore it's got a much better meaning in greek.

[VOLKANA]

DITR is one of those games that you will keep thinking of for a long time. I didn't expect to be such good. I recommend it to all especially the classic adventure fans :-)
I know wait for your next work Nikolas and Alkis... Please don't make us wait long... :D

[nikolas]

And here me thinking Alkis was swedish (alkis = short for alkoholist = alcoholic) :D
Not even sure that Alkis drinks! LOL!

I like my pint of beer occasionally, but that's all!

Volcana: A big big thanks for your support and love. :)

[annaluna]

@alkis and nicolas
big thanks for a great game:) i was also impressed with the english, because i'm greek too,lol.
the story was gripping, it made me forget the graphics;
i had to finish it once i started, even though i couldn't hear the music:(
nicolas you may be able to help me there, i saw your answer to a post about the demo not starting, this happened to my game, so i followed your instructions and deleted the atropos.avi file and the game started ok but , i heard speech and sound effects but no music at all:(
if anyone can help, i want to replay it with the soundtrack working, i must have lost a lot of the atmosphere:(
even so , it had me glued to my screen for hours,lol.
thanks again
anna

[nikolas]

Anna,

Oh boy! no music? I do think that you missed quite a lot... :-/ (if I may say so myself)

I can only think of two things right now, without being 100% sure really.

1. You accidently also deleted the music.vox file (the music file). I'm not really sure about this, since I imagine it also holds the sfx sounds... Either way, if this is the case, just reinstall the game.

2. go to winsetup.exe (double click it) and take a look at the the setting on the right. The digital music must be either in wabeout, or direct sound, and the two options bellow (use digital music pack and use speech pack, must both be selected)

You are talking about the demo, or the whole game, btw? Because the problem with the atropos.avi file is only in the demo, not the full game.

Anyways, if these two things above do not work, I'm not sure what it could be, but I'll notify Alkis to take a look at it. He is getting tons of e-mails and is unable to keep an eye on different forums, as far as I know. :)

[VOLKANA]

I think getting a ton of emails is a good thing. Right? It suggests that many people out there playing your game... I was really impressed by the English too... If i hadn't seen your site i wouldn't imagine that this one is a game made in Greece... :-)

[annaluna]

Anna,

Oh boy! no music? I do think that you missed quite a lot... :-/ (if I may say so myself)



;)you were absolutely right nicolas, the music is great and adds another dimension to the story:) as you thought my second box in the winsetup was unchecked, i just finished the game again with the music on , really the first game that i replayed so quickly;)
thanks again
anna

[nikolas]

I was wondering what happened with your 'case'. Gald I could help, and even more content that you enjoyed the game even better with the music on. :)

[alkis21]

The long-awaited Adventure Gamers Review (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,875) is here!

Although it is less enthusiastic than the other reviews I've read, I would nevertheless like to thank Mr. Williams for his comments and promise to take them under serious consideration in my future games.

The only thing I'd like to comment on is that I find the reviewer's claim that the game can be completed in maybe 4 or 5 hours extremely inaccurate.

[Toefur]

Hi Alkis,

I don't get the time to check out this site and play games as much as I once did, but I saw the review for the game on visiting the site today. I just wanted to say that the game sounds promising. I know that my young brother and I greatly enjoyed Other Worlds years ago when you released that, so I am looking forwards to playing this one. As soon as I have my monies sorted out, I will be purchasing this game.

Looking forwards to it!

[stepurhan]

The only thing I'd like to comment on is that I find the reviewer's claim that the game can be completed in maybe 4 or 5 hours extremely inaccurate.
Presumably you think the gameplay time is longer. I can't imagine the 4 or 5 hours figure was plucked out of thin air though. What is your estimation of gameplay time? Also would your estimate be for just the critical path (solely doing what is necessary to complete the game and nothing more) or including viewing extra details you've put in?

[alkis21]

The game is easily four times longer than that if played at a normal place by an average gamer. It will last even more for most people. I know it by heart of course as I created it and even I would have trouble completing it in 4 hours even if I skipped every line of dialog and only sticked to what needs to be done in order to progress.

I will not comment on anything else the reviewer said as it's based on his opinion which I respect, but I felt the need to correct that point as it is a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion. It's no different than someone saying that the game uses 1st person perspective.

[nikolas]

Since there is a walkthrough available (and I used it while checking out the last beta), I do know that it does take around 3-4 hours to complete, with clicking away most dialogues away. In all truth, in all forums I've been and people discussing it, I've never seen anyone finishing it in less than a day or so (not straight through 20 hours of play, for pit's shake! :D)

[AGA]

Perhaps my estimation of the length was a bit low, since I played the game through in a few sessions. It definitely didn't take as long as 20 hours, but perhaps I should see about adjusting the comment in the review, thanks for pointing this out.

[Len Green]

Presumably you think the gameplay time is longer. I can't imagine the 4 or 5 hours figure was plucked out of thin air though. What is your estimation of gameplay time? Also would your estimate be for just the critical path (solely doing what is necessary to complete the game and nothing more) or including viewing extra details you've put in?
I do not believe that anybody has or can finish DITR in 5 hours - in any which way!
The Reviewer himself has now amended his contention to "Under 10 hours".
I think that hardly any players will finish it in under say a dozen hours unless they take a few peeks at the walkthrough (or searched Hints Forums... whose helpers have generally used the walkthrough to overcome their not infrequent stucknesses!).

The review has some personal subjective criticisms of the game to which the Reviewer is 100% entitled. But in addition to the length of the game there are IMHO several factual aspects which are unfairly biased !
Please see :-
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22404

[stepurhan]

The review has some personal subjective criticisms of the game to which the Reviewer is 100% entitled. But in addition to the length of the game there are IMHO several factual aspects which are unfairly biased !
Please see :-
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22404The assertion that there are factual errors in the review has already been responded to prior to your making this post. As has been pointed out in the other thread, apart from the assertion about length (which, as you accept, the reviewer has already amended) the items you point out are opinions and NOT facts. This is a very important distinction and I would request that you refrain from mixing the two in future.

I also feel it only fair to point out, for the benefit of those that don't follow through to that other thread where you admit as much, that you were involved in the development of the game. It is natural that such involvement should make you keen to defend the game but it is important that, like alkis and nikolas have done, you make your involvement clear in all places you are doing so.

[alkis21]

I want to point out (before this discussion escalates) that I am the only person who is legally and financially related to Atropos Studios (as co-owner). Nikolas worked on the game's music and sound engineering under a contract, while Len offered substantial pro bono services, mostly in the area of text editing and beta testing.

What I'm trying to say is that their opinions, as expressed in this forum or anywhere else, do not necessarily reflect the official AS views.

[Len Green]

Post garbled ! Redone !!!

~~ Stepurhan ~~

I also feel it only fair to point out, for the benefit of those that don't follow through to that other thread where you admit as much, that you were involved in the development of the game.
I did not "admit as much" but stated it purposely and boldly as an introduction, at the very beginning of my post!
The items you point out are opinions and NOT facts.
IMO they are facts.
In my post I "requested the Reviewer to post any places where he observed any “awkwardness in the writing".....
I also asked him "to point out any spelling &/or grammatical mistakes."
In addition I asked him to post any places where the voice acting "sounds a bit irregular, with stresses on the wrong words in sentences".
If he posts a few of the above (as I said I can easily & quickly check, having 72 Saves) and if he is correct, I will sincerely apologise for maligning him
If not ... they are facts and not merely my opinions set down without objective backing.

[skurken]

Just wanted to say I respect Alkis21's way of handling this. Very professional indeeed.

Oh and Len, IMO, I really think you are confusing opinions with facts. Whatever your credentials are, sorry.

Carry on! ;)

[CoyoteAG]

I wish it was available as a download. As more and more developers do this I really love it. We live in an age of "instant gratification" and I am one who is used to that. I love being able to buy a game and play it within a few hours. I know that a lot of people like to have the boxes and save them but both versions can be offered. Would it be difficult to make it available for download?

Just a suggestion from an avid adventure gamer for this game or any future games that you may make. I'm sure I'm going to order this anyway, but if it's going to be available for download in the future, I'd wait.

[alkis21]

I'm afraid there are no plans for a downloadable version of DITR, for a variety of reasons.

[Jackal]

Just wanted to say I respect Alkis21's way of handling this. Very professional indeeed.

Ditto.

And I trust the pointless argument won't actually escalate any farther, as that would reflect poorly on the game through no fault of its own (or its developer). :shifty: This thread is about the game, not Len's opinion of AG's review.

[stepurhan]

Speaking personally I shall probably get this game despite the mediocre review here. The main reason for this is the nicely thought out demo.

Two things stand out from the demo to bring me to this conclusion.

Firstly, I just like the thoughts system. I have played games with this sort of system before (Lewton's notebook in Discworld Noir) but the post it note layout and active thought option make it easy to use. I think this sort of system helps bridge that gap of getting a character to make a connection that a player has realised. It's so often frustrating when you know what you want to do but can't get a character to do it because of this knowledge gap.

Secondly, sufficient plot is dangled in front of the player to leave them hungry for more. The lead character has taken a fatal poison? :crazy: I so want to know how someone can come to this point.

If the review had said the payoff was a let-down I probably wouldn't bother (a poor ending can be worse than not knowing) Since they said exactly the opposite then I think I'm prepared to put up with any issues (and it might turn out my opinion differs anyway) to reach it.

So hats off to the Atropos Studios team. You've made a demo that does exactly what a demo should, entices people into playing the full game.

[alkis21]

You know, what's interesting is that many people who played the game said the exact opposite to me. They claimed that the demo did not do the game justice at all, mostly because it was rather short and the puzzle included was not one of the good ones.

Anyways, for those of you who speak German two more reviews are online:

Adventure Spiele (4/5 stars) (http://www.adventurespiele.net/Reviews-req-showcontent-id-214.htm)

Adventure Archiv (83%) (http://www.adventurearchiv.de/d2/diamondsreviewd.htm)

And for the handful of you who speak Greek :), this month's issue of the PC Master magazine features a review too (80%).

[stepurhan]

Having not played the full game I can't say whether the demo does it justice or not. All I can say is what was in the demo is enough to make me want to play the full game.

[Len Green]

I myself don't speak either German or Greek... but I have plenty of friends who do!

Congratulations Alkis on 3 more reviews with scores of 80% or over, along with very flattering comments (to add to the previous 2 or 3 very similar)! :9 :D

[Len Green]

More details on the above post :-

"The script is exceptional, the writing is awesome, the research that Alkis did sounds out of this world and it's one of the few games that invoke such intense feelings"
PC Master Magazine (Greek) - Grade: 80%

"Diamonds in the Rough with its innovations in puzzle design and the gripping, twisting, if not to say even stirring story absolutely deserves this high rating"
Adventure Archiv (German) - Grade: 83%

"The great and surprising story, simple controls and clever puzzles are absolutely on par with the best modern high budget productions. Clearly this game has been designed by adventure fans for adventure fans"
Adventure Spiele (German) - Grade: 4/5 stars

See :- http://www.atropos-studios.com/diamonds.html

[Pavel4444]

I am not planning to buy/play this game because I didn't like the demo. So can somebody clue me in on the plot and on the "amazing ending"?

thanks.

[nikolas]

No, not really! :D At least not me!

You see, it won't really work this way! Here, I can share with you the ending of "7th sense": The doctor is dead himself! There! Did it feel anything good? Did it make much sense? Did it do the movie any good?

The ending won't really work without playing the game, that's what I'm saying.

[SSH]

very flattering comments

"Flattering" implies that you think they weren't deserved, Len...

[stepurhan]

I'm sure that's not what Len meant but you're quite right. Flattery is insincere or excessive praise.

[Len Green]

You are absolutely right, guys.
It was a VERY bad choice of words of mine ... mea culpa ... Sorry !

I should have written something like :-
Congratulations Alkis on 3 more reviews with scores of 80% or over, along with very positive comments (to add to the previous 2 or 3 very similar !)

[alkis21]

Good luck to everyone who will participate in the Giveaway.

One more review (in English) was added to the list in our site (http://www.atropos-studios.com/diamonds.html) for anyone who is interested.

[cw2381]

I have seen people criticize the graphics of DITR, particularly the animations. I don't see that, yeah its a bit choppy, but so was virtually every great adventure until very recently (Dreamfall obviously was visually great, and Still Life had some great cut scenes). If someone were to release Gabriel Knight 4 in the same style as the original I would be incredibly excited to get it. I still consider Gabriel Knight to be one of the greatest adventures of all time, and DITR has better graphics IMO. Also when considering the limited budget an indie company has to deal with, one of the most impressive things about it is the voice acting and the soundtrack, both of which are stellar. When compared to other games produced by European Commercial companies like Overclocked, Next Life, and Tunguska, I think DITR wins out in both of categories.

[alkis21]

I like that word, stellar. :)