Trouble with guilt when looking up hints?

[shadow9d9]

I have always struggled with adventure games and deciding whether to look up hints or not... I always feel tremendous guilt when I look something up.. even if I look something up on uhs and don't even need to click on any of the explanations(the list of things to do gave me enough of a hint in and of itself of where to try something).

Should we suffer hours upon hours of repeating the same locations until it clicks or should we look up a hint on uhs?

[Melanie68]

I don't think it's a should and that it all depends on the player. I personally don't feel any guilt although it depends on how tired I am as to how quickly I look.

I don't look down on anyone who does choose to use hints and I marvel at those people who never need them (I think they have the patience of a saint). :)

[shadow9d9]

Part of me feels that there is no point in playing if you have ot look up anything at all.. the other part feels frustrated when there are 3 rooms and 5 items in your inventory and you have seemingly tried everything!

[Mickey Bitsko]

After playing Gabriel Knight 1 for two excruciating years I had to resort to a walkthrough and have never gotten over the terrible guilt! They don't make 'em tough like that anymore, no sirree!

I try to avoid walkthroughs, but there was also a point in Curse of Monkey Island when I just had to resort to one.

I just know I'm going to hell for being such a wimp.

[marshal99]

Why should there be guilt when you are looking for hints ? If you are stuck in a game and getting frustrated , there's nothing wrong with getting hints. If you are a brainiac and a super gamer , kudos if you can do it all alone without resorting to any type of hints but i'm not a brainiac and if i get stuck and couldn't proceed , then i look it up and find out what i missed. There's no wrong or shame in admitting that you couldn't do it without help. Everyone needs help once in a while.

[SnorkleCat]

It depends on the kind of game. Rarely is the solution to a puzzle something that I haven't considered or tried in some way, so it doesn't usually make me feel too bad to glance at a hint. I remember having a difficult time with one of the puzzles in Myst IV, and the problem was just in manipulating something quickly enough, which was made difficult by the fact that I was playing without a mouse pad- but I really needed to see if I was on the right track after failing repeatedly.....
If the puzzles are illogical, pointless ones that seem to come out of nowhere, I don't feel bad using a walk through. It simply means that I couldn't guess what weird contrivances the developer cooked up...I don't usually like these kinds of games as much anyway.

I never use a walk through for well designed brain teaser type game puzzles, such as the old "Hound and Hare" type of puzzle or sliding blocks or that type of thing, because then I'd feel a bit lame. For that kind of puzzle, I think the fun comes in the solving and the sense of accomplishment you feel when you finally get it. Most games however don't feature puzzles that are that well constructed, so sometimes one has to use a walk through.

[mrdriller]

I tend to look at hints/check walkthroughs for a lot of games. The problem is I have a huge backlog of games I own but haven't played yet, so if I get stuck in one that I am currently playing I'll either check a walkthrough or move onto something else and forget about it.

[Tobbe]

I got to problem too, I use hints quite a lot. I can manage without a walkthrough for a long time, but once I used it it´s easy to use it again...

[Havrepus]

To me, this depends on a lot of things, mood and time being two of them. I admit that I am more a casual adventurer rather than a hardcore one, and sometimes I just want to play through a fun story, kind of like reading a book. And I don't bother kicking myself for not guessing who the killer is (it's always the butler who did it anyway), so why have a different approach to a game? The key here is simple fun. Now, I usually don't use hints much, but if I keep running into "guess which illogical item-combo I'm thinking of this time..." or stuff like that, I'm not thinking twice about using hints. Several years ago I could spend days trying to solve those seemingly impossible puzzles. Nowadays there is too many other fun things for me to do, I simply don't want to spend as many hours or days with the game.

If I want to play through a game without using hints, I can. Simple as that. But it may take a lot of time. To me, there is no reason whatsoever to look down on those (us) who sometimes, or even often, use hints or walkthrough. Games should absolutely be for everyone, not just the most dedicated, hardcore players.

[Fairygdmther]

I've entered this rant several times, so I'll be brief here.

1. Using UHS or w/t's isn't cheating - cheating means you are affecting someone else, like cheating on a test, cheating on your wife, cheating on your taxes. Since using these helps affects no one but you - no harm, no foul.

2. You pay your money to play a game - you have the right to play it how you like. Or not. You can stomp the shiny disc into a million pieces, and no one will know or care. The only thing you can't do is make copies and distribute them, since that violates copyright laws for Intellectual Property (the game itself).

3. We play games for the enjoyment. If it isn't fun (like making you wade through umpti-nine mazes and slider puzzles, etc.), then why bother playing it? Various helps, like forums, UHS, and w/t's can make it fun again - what's so bad about that? I just wish there were 'God-mode' cheats like on the consoles to help get you through fighting sequences.

4. There are many reasons to use helps - time, inexperience, boredom with the game, etc. But the 'whys' don't matter in the long run. There's no big logbook in the sky that records all these things. Seriously, no one cares!

So enjoy your games however you like!

FGM

[Monroeski]

I usually have a time limit, nothing really concrete, but after a while I just know when it's time to look something up, particularly if I'm stuck for a couple of days. Most of the time when I need a FAQ, it ends up being some pixel hunt I missed or something like that, and I feel NO remorse whatsoever when that's the case.

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

No guilt here. When it stops being fun, I'm looking for help.

Often, I just have to start reading the hint to slap myself on the forehead.

I mentioned in another thread that I was without broadband for 10 days last month and learned that I could, with time, figure things out. But that was during vacation day. If I'm playing on a work evening (and I have a troubleshooting type of job), I don't need the stress.

[Squinky]

I thought this discussion looked familiar. (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=15955)

Personally, yes, I do feel a bit of guilt for being impatient, but that's overshadowed by the indignation I feel when it comes to getting stuck in the first place. In my eyes, a well-designed game (particularly one where the main aim is to tell a story) should not frustrate the player, period. Which explains why I'm so bad at most games...

[Lee in Limbo]

No guilt whatsoever. I play these games to be immersed in an environment and enjoy a particularly stimulating narrative cycle. What I don't need are ludicrous challenges that keep me from enjoying these things. I like puzzles. I do not love puzzles. I owe no loyalty to the Puzzle Gods. I care not for the Puzzlerati. If I get stuck, I try to figure it out. If I can't figure it out after a reasonable period of time and I start thinking about quitting, I go to UHS. I used to use walkthroughs, but I find UHS is just enough help without being too much help.

No guilt whatsoever.

[After a brisk nap]

I thought this discussion looked familiar. (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=15955)

Personally, yes, I do feel a bit of guilt for being impatient, but that's overshadowed by the indignation I feel when it comes to getting stuck in the first place. In my eyes, a well-designed game (particularly one where the main aim is to tell a story) should not frustrate the player, period. Which explains why I'm so bad at most games...Well, a little bit of frustration can make it all the more satisfying when you finally get it.

I think managing frustration is one of the big challenges in game design. One of the fundamental problems for adventure games is that when you're stuck, there's nowhere to go, no general method to get you past the point. In more arcade oriented games you just have to try harder, get better, and that means that frustration is balanced by the tantalizing feeling of almost getting it. There's no almost in an adventure game. I suspect this is one reason why they're not all that popular any more.

[Arkay]

I have guilt so overwhelming during the first playthrough that I am incapable of looking up a hint. But the thing with me and most games I own is that I have finished about 5 percent of them, and most of them I put aside half-complete (usually because I just lost interest, or because something else stole my interest away). When I get to a point when I am out of games to play at present, I dust off those incomplete games and decide to plow through them just to get the ending. In this run-throughs, I am all about finishing it with minimal frustration and hang-ups, so I will use FAQs and walkthroughs.

Most recently I did this for Zelda The Wind Waker for the Nintendo Gamecube (a game I was embarassed to have left about 5 rooms away from the final boss battle).

I think most people who love their games have some degree of guilt about using hints on the first run through...I'm not trying to assume, but it just seems that most people I've come across take pride in having finished the game on their own.

[Jobabob]

I only feel guilty if its an easy answer I didnt think of, I feel cheated if its something I was nowhere near thinking of and couldnt imagine ever thinking of!

[Periglo]

I only feel guilty if its an easy answer I didnt think of, I feel cheated if its something I was nowhere near thinking of and couldnt imagine ever thinking of!

Same here!!! Sometimes I think how obvious the answer was, and I feel silly. That's why I much prefer hints, which clue you in the right direction (provided they are well written, but that's another issue). Others, I feel relieved from not having to spend hours looking for a fallen button or something.

In any case, I never feel too guilty. There's a time issue in my case, I just don't have time to waste having no fun - different story when I was a kid.

[stepurhan]

I thought this discussion looked familiar. (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=15955)
This discussion did the rounds way before that (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=6346) Mine had a poll as well. :)

I feel disappointed in myself if I've looked at a walkthrough or hint and find the answer is something I should have thought of. I also find walkthroughs can accidentally reveal things that you didn't know about at all yet. This is why I use UHS (http://www.uhs-hints.com/) in preference. Even they can reveal information just by the list of available hint areas.

[Periglo]

This is why I use UHS (http://www.uhs-hints.com/) in preference. Even they can reveal information just by the list of available hint areas.

That is so very annoying. Even if they list the sections as they appear in the game, writers should be more careful. I have met titles as spoiliing as "OK, now X is dead, now what?". I sometimes reduce the browser window a lot and slowly scroll one line at a time. To be fair, sometimes they are nicely designed, I don't remember the last one I used (Dreamfall) was too bad.

[Crapstorm]

I stopped feeling guilty about looking up hints long ago. Too many adventure games feature challenges that are simply no fun to solve honestly.