Adventuregame Modifying

[bigjko]

Yes, you're right. I'm talking about adventuregame mod-ing. Yep, the same thing that's been happening to FPSs for as long as I remember.

Oh, no, but listen. What I'm thinking is more in the vein of upgrading the games so they'd look better on today's computers. I was just wondering if, for example, if you could actually go and change the Gabriel Knight 3 texture files, to make them higher-resolution and what-not.

This is a rushed post, because this was just something that occurred to me while I was on the john. Loo. The tinkle-room. Yeah, so what do you think? Could GK3's textures be updated for the present machines? It's been done for FPSs.

[Marek]

bgbennyboy recently found out how to replace backgrounds and textures in Escape From Monkey Island. The possibility of a mod is there.

Generally speaking, it's hard to do with adventure games though. Modding a game that's not been created with modders in mind requires a lot of reverse-engineering.

[ragnar]

Yep, it's hard. I think that AG makers should have more possibility for mod-making. It would create a community around the game and people would be able to create their own adventures using the engine (in some way). I think it would be great.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

...if you could actually go and change the Gabriel Knight 3 texture files, to make them higher-resolution and what-not.....Could GK3's textures be updated for the present machines? It's been done for FPSs.

With that ancient-ass engine?! Unh don't think so. But I would die to see GK3 entirely remade using the current Unreal or LithTech Jupiter engine! http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/otn/tongue/aroused.gif Imagine a revamped GK3 looking like this!! (http://www.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?/reviews/october02/nolf2/5.jpg)

...This is a rushed post, because this was just something that occurred to me while I was on the john. Loo. The tinkle-room. Yeah, so what do you think?

"That would make a mess.... That. Is. DISGUSTING."

- Grace Nakimura, GK3 (when you click the toilet paper and toilet respectively in the hotel room)

[Bumstead]

I was working on modding GK3 for a loooong time. For a while I was even reverse engineering thier model format.
There was a guy who made new, high-rez textures for the game but I'm not sure how many he did. I'll try and find his website again.
You can also rescript the scenes, which is fun (I remeber posting something freaky on the Sydney forums). They have instructions on the CD for that kind of stuff.

[Bumstead]

Here we go,
http://worldzone.net/games/azrael_dark/mainpagex.html

[ragnar]

With that ancient-ass engine?! Unh don't think so.

You would be amazed what you can do with old engines. Just look at QuakeForge (http://www.quakeforge.net/). You could argue that it isn't the same engine anymore, but still it is rather lot of improvement from the original.

[Kode]

Given Shooter games' replayability (in terms of multiplayer) and unfixed structure, I would think it a lot easier to mod them.

Adventure games on the other hand tend to be a lot more structured. It's awesome that we can modify the backgrounds in EMI, but of what use would it be? :P

Perhaps something could be done to make Guybrush look cooler or...but why? :D

You use the internet in the john! Loo? COOL *D

[ragnar]

Given Shooter games' replayability (in terms of multiplayer) and unfixed structure, I would think it a lot easier to mod them.

Adventure games on the other hand tend to be a lot more structured. It's awesome that we can modify the backgrounds in EMI, but of what use would it be? :P

Perhaps something could be done to make Guybrush look cooler or...but why? :D

It would be interesting to make a _complete_ mod, i.e. a new adventure.

[Kode]

It would be interesting to make a _complete_ mod, i.e. a new adventure.

But then you'd have to change stuff like what the character actually does, which appears to be beyond our control...

Say we mod a background that had a basket from which Guybrush had to take something. What could we do? We could make it a bag that Guybrush had to take something from :D But we couldn't really make what he had to take appear some place else...or could we?

Is this making sense :P

[ragnar]

But then you'd have to change stuff like what the character actually does, which appears to be beyond our control...

Say we mod a background that had a basket from which Guybrush had to take something. What could we do? We could make it a bag that Guybrush had to take something from :D But we couldn't really make what he had to take appear some place else...or could we?

Is this making sense :P

No we can't make such things with current games. But it would be nice if you could with games like BS3 or Syberia 2.

[Kode]

No we can't make such things with current games. But it would be nice if you could with games like BS3 or Syberia 2.

I agree. :)

That would start up a whole industry of "adventure game modifying" with scores of groups making their own "mod" of these games :D

It would essentially make a framework for a new kind of adventure game creating engine. Skin your characters, make your backgrounds, make your story - you've got a whole new game! :o

[Intrepid Homoludens]

To be candid, I'm ultimately more interested in making a great remake across the board, showcasing the game's original strengths by introducing augmentative technical details, especially if money were not an issue at all. In the case of GK3, I'd start with either the Source engine or the Unreal engine and improve the entire gameworld, down to the smallest details. The end result of this would be Rennes le Chateau bathed in a more vivid, expressionistic skin, with higher grade textures, dynamic sky, real time lighting and shadows, pixel shaded water, trees that sway in the breeze, wildlife beyond that singular black cat, and a cast of NPCs scattered about the little town doing their usual chores. I'd choose radiosity lighting (as in ICO (http://www.gamesdomain.com/playstation2/previews/ico5.html)), as the south of France is very hot, and this kind of lighting conveys not only light but also heat.

Two of the most important things I'd add are facial expressions and idiosyncratic motion captured character animations, an exclusive animation for each principal character. These elements alone would plunge the player so deeply into the story and characters.

Just as important, I'd introduce a cinematic direction to the gameplay, where all the cutscenes would be in-engine and the camera could move dynamically, going in for close-ups, panning across a room, sweeping over a countryside view, or zooming in on a vital detail or clue to prompt the player.

Finally, I felt that GK3's original interface was clumsy and indecisive, as if the game couldn't make its mind up whether to be completely point-&-click or direct control with camera work, and ended up diluting itself by being both. My solution would be to have it completely point-&-click, but to keep the camera moving and hovering around the character. Any of you who have played Silent Hill, SH2, or SH3 will get this. Imagine clicking somewhere. Gabe will move to where you clicked, but the camera will follow him cinematically, keeping just enough distance from him so you can see the entirety of the scene.

[remixor]

Honestly, how necessary are mod-able adventures? If a fan (or team of fans) wants to create their own adventures, there are a multitude of free engines/studios available, adventure and otherwise. And as far as remakes go, what's really the point? It would be nice, I suppose, but would it really be worth the effort? Tierra has done great things with their Sierra remakes, but those are 2d and they're only remaking them to a certain established chronological standard (circa 1993 or so). Action games are much more repetetive, and fan mods tend to be even more so. I realize that there are many action games these day with much deeper stories than is traditional for the genre, but those are the professionally-developed games. Programming a full-length adventure game remake with a modern engine just seems more trouble than it's worth.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Programming a full-length...game remake with a modern engine just seems more trouble than it's worth.

I guess John Carmack had nothing else better to do. http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/AoErat/uhhuh.gif

[remixor]

:shifty:

pq

[fov]

that link to the GK3 skins is neat. can you actually drop them into the game? (i was too lazy to read the tutorial.)

i'd love to make a gabe skin with dean erikson's face so i could relive the GK2 glory days...

:D emily

[Dylan_Dog]

I'd love to do a mod for Blade Runner.

[DomStLeger]

Finally, I felt that GK3's original interface was clumsy and indecisive, as if the game couldn't make its mind up whether to be completely point-&-click or direct control with camera work, and ended up diluting itself by being both. My solution would be to have it completely point-&-click, but to keep the camera moving and hovering around the character. Any of you who have played Silent Hill, SH2, or SH3 will get this. Imagine clicking somewhere. Gabe will move to where you clicked, but the camera will follow him cinematically, keeping just enough distance from him so you can see the entirety of the scene.

I personally disagree; I felt the GK3 interface was perfect for the game, and executed very well. It gives you the sort of freedom to explore the entire map that direct control couldn't. I don't recall it diluting itself by being both; you controlled the camera and used it to decide what to do. The character would come on screen when you clicked something for him to do/walk to; instead of you having to always have him on screen and travel across a location in steps. On large locations you could whizz around the map; doing close ups with the magnifying icon; exploring and examining. You didn't have to wait for the character to move at all; it was removed from the game if the camera was used properly.

If you do what you suggest; have it completely point and click but with a hovering dynamic camera you run the risk of annoying the player. When they want to do something it may take them an age just to get the character there. To alleviate that problem, I think you might have to shrink the game world/individual locations.

For me the only other way for point and click to work, apart from controlling the camera directly, would be to use the grim fandango/EMI static camera views but with a mouse interface overlaying it and hot spots. I honestly don't see why that can't work; because the way the 3D was done in GF and EMI means it isn't a huge leap from the pre-rendered static back drops of old.

[Tanukitsune]

Well, I dont know about mods, but a graphic adventure here in Spain has something like an expansion... There was a series of games were if you bought and installed two episodes of the same saga, you unlocked the 3rd episode...

[Wajus]

I think moding is only acceptable from a technical point of view. I'm not really into fan adventures and alternative stories to known commercial franchise.

The way I see it LBA2 sure could use some Direct3D acceleration libraries.

You would be amazed what you can do with old engines. Just look at QuakeForge (http://www.quakeforge.net/). You could argue that it isn't the same engine anymore, but still it is rather lot of improvement from the original.

It's still nothing. Jus check out Tennebrea at http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/:

http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake93.jpg

[Marek]

Which was the one that can generate large crowds of characters?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I personally disagree; I felt the GK3 interface was perfect for the game, and executed very well. It gives you the sort of freedom to explore the entire map that direct control couldn't. I don't recall it diluting itself by being both; you controlled the camera and used it to decide what to do. The character would come on screen when you clicked something for him to do/walk to; instead of you having to always have him on screen and travel across a location in steps. On large locations you could whizz around the map; doing close ups with the magnifying icon; exploring and examining. You didn't have to wait for the character to move at all; it was removed from the game if the camera was used properly.

If you do what you suggest; have it completely point and click but with a hovering dynamic camera you run the risk of annoying the player. When they want to do something it may take them an age just to get the character there. To alleviate that problem, I think you might have to shrink the game world/individual locations.

For me the only other way for point and click to work, apart from controlling the camera directly, would be to use the grim fandango/EMI static camera views but with a mouse interface overlaying it and hot spots. I honestly don't see why that can't work; because the way the 3D was done in GF and EMI means it isn't a huge leap from the pre-rendered static back drops of old.

Ah, but there are ways around these potential obstacles. One of them, respectful of gameplay, would be to have Gabe/Grace turn their heads toward a person/place/thing of importance, and even on occasion automatically commenting on it. The player clicks on it, and the camera zooms in and the cursor offers choices. In larger environments, if you want to simply look around, double-clicking the mouse will automatically send the camera view gliding towards where you clicked, leaving the character running behind to catch up (just like in the original GK3). I find this point of view very democratic because it caters alike to p-&-c players and 3D explorative players, giving a high amount of freedom to explore while preserving the dramatic cinematic camera angles and subsequent narrative techniques - a solid balance between gameplay and storytelling. You should watch Orson Welles' Citizen Kane and A Touch Of Evil, and Hitchcock's Vertigo for inspiration.

[Bumstead]

that link to the GK3 skins is neat. can you actually drop them into the game? (i was too lazy to read the tutorial.)

i'd love to make a gabe skin with dean erikson's face so i could relive the GK2 glory days...

:D emily

Ya you can actually use them in game. You can basically replace any resourse in GK3 with something you make yourself (ie. sounds, textures, scripts).

[remixor]

a solid balance between gameplay and storytelling. You should watch Orson Welles' Citizen Kane and A Touch Of Evil, and Hitchcock's Vertigo for inspiration.

As a solid balance of gameplay and storytelling...? :confused: Citizen Kane and Vertigo are two of my all-time favorite movies, but I'm not sure I understand what you mean.