I'm fed up

[avatar_58]

I said a mouthful on another forum, so I think I'll past it here.


What do these have in common? They are part of a genre thats having its ass kicked. I seriously have a hard time buying any adventure anymore, when the reviews aren't scaring me away the demos do a good job of it.

CSI - If that demo doesn't stop you from purchasing the game, you must be desperate.

Paradise - from the designer of Syberia. Nuff said.....boring story, no interaction, nothing but drab puzzles and slow moving characters. Hey, but its got nice backgrounds! Hoo boy! I thought adventure games were the one genre that didn't rely on graphics....

Crime Stories - Between the translation problems, straight forward gameplay and characters they expect you to know but can't unless your a native from its country....I don't know what to think on this one.

Scratches - I used to like wandering dank lonely locations, problem is Myst does it so well this game has little new to it. The demo kept me wandering the same rooms over and over again.....and it seems it gets no better from review impressions. Just what I needed, a game to force me to read a walkthrough or pull out my own teeth.

Dreamfall maybe be the only hope....but wait! Now we hear the added stealth and fight scenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay. Wonderful!

You know what? It's getting damn hard for me to defend this god forsaken genre. I love adventure games, I really do....however this has got to be the only genre where the past really IS better than the future. When the hell am I going to play the next big Monkey Island or King's Quest? No, not the damn IPs....let them rest, I'm talking in context here. When am I going to be able to play a NEW adventure game with interesting characters, a good plot and puzzles that are worth my time thinking about?

It really hurts when 10 or more adventure games come out in 2 months time and I only feel the need to buy one of them, simply out of hope. I think after I get Dreamfall I'm going to go back into dosbox and scummvm and play all the games I've missed, because at least they'll be new to me, AND worth my time.

Its nice to hope for a revival, but considering Indigo Prophecy was the only decent game to carry adventure elements in ages (and its not even in the truest sense of the word) I think I'm almost done caring. So lead on Dreamfall.....your the last real hope for this genre for me. I love other genres enough not to bother looking on the horizon of a genre that can only wow me 5 years between each game.

[TheGreyMatter]

And you think the golden age wasn't full of crap adventures? :D

Without commenting on the specific games you've talked about
It's the nature of nostlgia, you tend to forget that all these great games were released in a span of 8-13 years, and between them there were as much as clones we get not.

B.T.W
A) Yes we are desperate.
B) and yes , it's seems to be less 'lucas-arts' style adventure games in the last few years (apart from Bone which has its flaws, and dreamfall)

[avatar_58]

And you think the golden age wasn't full of crap adventures? :D

Of course it was! However is that an excuse to keep making them? Developers need to wake the fark up and make something actually WORTH my money. I hate how they price them at $20 too as if that makes everything better. No, I don't mind paying full price if it means I get a better experience thank you very much.

I'm just so sick of being so damn careful. I have games of other genres that are actually worth my money. Its sad to me.....

[Litrick]

I think the saddest thing about the Adventure Genre, is despite there being so many people like yourself, who just want a good entertaining, plain old adventure title, like DOTT, Grim, MI, KQ etc etc... every developer seems to think they need to invent some type of new adventure super genre, with Flashy 3d, and "innovative gameplay", all of which just ammounts to lackluster action game with some puzzles...

[Naveed]

Well, you havn't played Dreamfall yet, I assume? I agree, the IGN review is so disappointing, and it literally kills the hype of the game for me. I wish, oh I wish that it turns out to be wonderful. It was the only the adventure game in years that I wanted to play, and it will be such a letdown if it really disappoints as much as the IGN review suggests.

I am currently playing TLJ for the sake of going through the world again before the arrival of Dreamfall. I am enjoying it alot, since it is my second play through, after six years, so it feels very refreshing. What makes me still love TLJ is not the gameplay, which is point and click at best. It is the incredible depth in the story, the characters and dialogs. I hope, Dreamfall excels in these areas, otherwise it will kill a part of a gamer in me. Dreamfall is just not about the hype that is due to incredible graphics, or amazing gameplay, it is much more than that, its base is TLJ, and the reputation of Ragnar and Funcom.

Of course, if it really disappoints this much, I will never ever pre-order a game, unless I read reviews. ;)

[avatar_58]

I think the saddest thing about the Adventure Genre, is despite there being so many people like yourself, who just want a good entertaining, plain old adventure title, like DOTT, Grim, MI, KQ etc etc... every developer seems to think they need to invent some type of new adventure super genre, with Flashy 3d, and "innovative gameplay", all of this just ammounts to lackluster action game with some puzzles...

No, see I LIKE when they try new things. However "new things" doesn't mean fill my game with pointless sequences and claim innovation. Indigo Prophecy was great, wheres its rival? I don't like the idea that I get one good adventure every few years.....thats terrible.

I don't buy many 'decent' games. I would rather spend my money on 'amazing' games. I mean, I don't exactly feel like spending all my money on just games, so the ones I do buy better be worth it. However whats the point? Why not just buy Oblivion? Splinter Cell? FEAR? You know, games which actually keep me entertained without having to say "gee....this is kind of dull, what game can I compare it to in order to justify having played it?"

[insane_cobra]

I don't waste my time thinking about the genre anymore. What's the point? If a game I think I'd like comes along, I'll play it, that's all.

Btw, that's my sentiment on all genres, not just the adventure genre. I don't care much for labels.

[Litrick]

No, see I LIKE when they try new things. However "new things" doesn't mean fill my game with pointless sequences and claim innovation. Indigo Prophecy was great, wheres its rival? I don't like the idea that I get one good adventure every few years.....thats terrible.

I don't buy many 'decent' games. I would rather spend my money on 'amazing' games. I mean, I don't exactly feel like spending all my money on just games, so the ones I do buy better be worth it. However whats the point? Why not just buy Oblivion? Splinter Cell? FEAR? You know, games which actually keep me entertained without having to say "gee....this is kind of dull, what game can I compare it to in order to justify having played it?"

I am all for new styles of gameplay too, but that doesnt mean every adventure should be "innovative". I think there is still room for a good old 2d point and click, as long as it is good.

[Orange Brat]

Hey, but its got nice backgrounds! Hoo boy! I thought adventure games were the one genre that didn't rely on graphics....

This applies to the 3D age. Adventures have always been known for their beautiful, hand rendered backdrops and were always the best looking games on the market. When 3D went standard is when the "graphics don't matter" mantra started.

[avatar_58]

I don't waste my time thinking about the genre anymore. What's the point? If a game I think I'd like comes along, I'll play it, that's all.

Btw, that's my sentiment on all genres, not just the adventure genre. I don't care much for labels.


I hate labels too, thats why I prefer when games mix genres.....makes for a better experience. Deus Ex, Psychonauts and many other have proven this to me. ;)

However when adventure is becoming synonymous with 'dried up' and 'dull'.....well it kind of sucks. I used to hail this as the best genre out there, now I just sit back and wonder why all the games to back up my claims are more than 10 years old.....

[Dasilva]

Is this guy Audio Soldier on a different user or something? If you don't like adventure games, dont play them.

[avatar_58]

Is this guy Audio Soldier on a different user or something? If you don't like adventure games, dont play them.

Hey, I just made a rant I thought was worth listening to in case others agreed with me. ;) Since this is a forum about the genre in question I thought I would post it here as well.

I'm not against the genre, I'm against whats being done with it. Also...I might not play them. Thats the sad part. I really wish it wouldn't be like this.....:frown:

[TheGreyMatter]

in every genre there are (more of less) 20 dull games for every great games, the problem is - unlike adnvetures, most genres get 300 games each year!

so it's only a matter of statistics...
B.T.W. when was the last time one of the major companies in the industry released an adventure game?

[wicked]

II think there is still room for a good old 2d point and click, as long as it is good.

Yes, I would always prefer a good 2D than 3d.
The problem with adventures games today isn't 3d or the fact that developers only concentrate on good graphics (because you have to admit it, it's nice to have a well drawn background :D ), but they concentrate ONLY on that and serve us an uninteresting and predictable story with lousy gameplay (illogic puzzles, bad dialogs).
I started playing adventure games because of their great plots and attractive gameplay (i remember staying hours in fornt of some puzzles.. :) ), but nowadays adventure games are very commercial (not only adv, almost all genres).

I really feel sorry because there aren't any more comic adventures (like MI, Grim. Dott etc. .). The only one i was really excitede abou was Ankh, but it was a huge dissapointment.

[Dasilva]

in every genre there are (more of less) 20 dull games for every great games, the problem is - unlike adnvetures, most genres get 300 games each year!

so it's only a matter of statistics...
B.T.W. when was the last time one of the major companies in the industry released an adventure game?

Dreamfall? ;)

[avatar_58]

in every genre there are (more of less) 20 dull games for every great games, the problem is - unlike adnvetures, most genres get 300 games each year!


Of course, I'm not stupid. However isn't that the point of my post? There aren't enough good adventure games. How many bad ones versus good ones isn't a good excuse.....

[wicked]

Dreamfall? ;)
Haha, i was really expecting that, but when i heard that it has action scenes, my expectations lowered considerably.

[avatar_58]

Haha, i was really expecting that, but when i heard that it has action scenes, my expectations lowered considerably.

Actually I've always wondered what a next gen Manhunter would be like.......:P A collection of funny mini-games with an underlying adventure game. Then I think of Larry MCL. :frown:

[insane_cobra]

However when adventure is becoming synonymous with 'dried up' and 'dull'.....well it kind of sucks. I used to hail this as the best genre out there, now I just sit back and wonder why all the games to back up my claims are more than 10 years old..... It sucks, but it's not really anyone's problem but the developers'. On the other hand, many games of other genres now incorporate adventure game elements and are celebrated as better because of it. They've found the right mixture to appease the current tastes (and I'm sure some smartasses will now suggest mainstream gamers prefer shallow games nowadays - what ever rocks your boat, fellas) while "pure" adventure developers for the most part still struggle to even keep the little audience they have left. As I already said, nobody's fault but their own, it doesn't concern me anymore.

If I ever get around to developing a game, and I plan on doing just that, I'll choose what ever gameplay elements augment my general intention the best. No point in constraining oneself with genre boundaries. First there were games and then the genres formed around them - now some people think it should be the other way around.

[Dasilva]

Haha, i was really expecting that, but when i heard that it has action scenes, my expectations lowered considerably.

Have you read about the action? You don't have to fight every fight, and its jade empire meets Kotor style, which is good.

[avatar_58]

If I ever get around to developing a game, and I plan on doing just that, I'll choose what ever gameplay elements augment my general intention the best. No point in constraining oneself with genre boundaries. First there were games and then the genres formed around them - now some people think it should be the other way around.

I would kill if they started to ignore genres. Call me if you ever start a game as it sounds like something I would generally like to try. ;)

I think its high time the pure adventure genre lied down and went to sleep. Maybe thats why I don't care anymore, its probably because so many blended games have shown me there is a better way to make these types of games.

[Kurufinwe]

I've already more or less said it, but since we're all repeating ourselves here, I might just as well go for it.

The problem with adventure games is the interplay between story and gameplay. They used to be gameplay-focused (i.e. focused on exploration/discovery and intellectual challenges), but with exploration came the need for story, which was at first just icing on the cake, until it started becoming a much more prevalent element.

And then some people thought that the right thing to do was to put more and more emphasis on the story, and (though why it should be a consequence of the first part is beyond me) limiting exploration (less hotspots, fewer conversation options...) and dumbing down puzzles.

So now, many adventure games are interactive, but can't justify their interactivity. They're games, but not fun to play as such. You're free to explore, except that there's nothing much to explore. You have control over your character, but absolutely can't change the course of the story.

For many years, many developpers have been doing the same stuff that led nowhere, wallowing in self-satisfied mediocrity. But I think it's changing, and I see three main directions:

1) Making 'games' which are not games anymore, but instead solely focused on story-telling and artistic merits, the gameplay being only a way to enhance the story-telling. I think this is what both Fahrenheit and Paradise are trying to do (and probably Dreamfall as well), though with different methods.

2) Returning to games that are actually fun to play as games. Kheops, with RTMI and Voyage, and TellTale are, I feel, going in that direction, and constantly improving.

3) Trying to make stories that are actually interactive. When I read that 'what makes the originality of Secrets of Da Vinci, apart from its plot, is the non-linear progression of the characters. As you progress in your quest, you have to choose between several branches, which means that each playthrough is different, and that several endings are possible', I do get interested.

Now, maybe you are not interested in those three directions. But at least I think people are now trying to do something with this genre.

So, instead of having yet another thread to bitch about stuff, what do you say we start discussing what we now want, what directions we'd like to see explored for adventure games? :)

[Litrick]

I would kill if they started to ignore genres. Call me if you ever start a game as it sounds like something I would generally like to try. ;)

I think its high time the pure adventure genre lied down and went to sleep. Maybe thats why I don't care anymore, its probably because so many blended games have shown me there is a better way to make these types of games.

So you would not like to see an adventure again like Grim or MI or whatever old games you love?
Dont you see, its because of the perception that people will find a pure adventure game boring, that we are getting these horribly mutated new style adventures. Yes some of them may be good.. Indigo prophecy for example, but i ask you... if things need to move on so badly, why did we all enjoy the classics so much? they are just as good now right? so saying we need to move away from that just doesnt make sense, and is why adventures suck today... because they are not being created with the same values, they are being created to be innovative, because supposedly they need to be otherwise they will be boring??? Was DOTT boring? was Grim boring? did they need "innovation", did they need fighting? did they need directx 9 graphics?

If pure/classic/traditional adventures are so bad and we need to progress away from them so badly. Why are we all here in the first place?

[avatar_58]

2) Returning to games that are actually fun to play as games. Kheops, with RTMI and Voyage, and TellTale are, I feel, going in that direction, and constantly improving.

I wanted to agree with you, until you put Voyage and Telltale in there. Voyage to me had useless puzzles that didn't engage me at all. I don't like having to hit 40 buttons until something happens.....and it also shared the very bad inventory dependancy that RTMI had. I actually liked RTMI, except that there were so few locations to actually explore, and it became a simple "click the item on every other item" bit. That essentially killed it for me.....but I did finish it.

Telltale seems to me like they want to be on the story 'path' that you mention. Bone didn't feel like I was doing much of anything except flipping pages of the book. It didn't help that bone itself is very uninteresting to me anyway.....

I do agree with your path theory though. Which one do I prefer? I don't have a flipping clue. When any of the three are done correctly I like them, hence why I even gave Indigo Prophecy the time of day. However I've not seen many in the second category that are worth playing anymore. I hope this changes.....because back with the incredibley challenging and full of explorating Quest days I had a blast. Its a shame that stem of genre gets the shaft in favour of "follow the bouncing story-line ball" games.


If pure/classic/traditional adventures are so bad and we need to progress away from them so badly. Why are we all here in the first place?

Do you see me complaining about the 'mutants' as you put them? I'm against the mediocre pure-genre games that have been released of late. If one actually bothered to be on the same scale as MI or Grim maybe I would care, but I don't know how anyone can play Syberia or Scratches and claim they are masterpieces even worth mentioning in the same sentence as those. I would rather they try new things, because at least IP was worth playing.....

[Dasilva]

Syberia 1 & 2 were good, you can't put those in the same sentance with Scratches. ;)

[Cheerios]

The last "pure-adventure" game I played and truly enjoyed was Still Life, and even that I found the game's pacing to be a bit slow and repetitive.

I think that's one of the major downfalls of the "pure" adventure style (at least for me), is the sometimes mundane and boring elements. i.e. watching your character slooowwlyy walk across the entire area which you've been to like 20 times already... or trying conversation trees over and over until you get the correct one.

Yes we all still love the old school games, but I think most of these attempts at innovation stems from an effort to improve these bad elements of adventure games. Personally I think going 3D is a great platform because when you're exploring with your character, you feel much more involved than just watching a character walk across a static, 2D world. At least the world around you is moving... and that, for me, makes it interesting.

Examples of this would be the jump to full-time 3D rendered environments in the Resident Evil and Final Fantasy series, as opposed to the previous 2D, pre-rendered settings. When I first experienced FFX and RE4, I was amazed at how much of a difference the dynamic environments made. When the world around you comes to life, it's much easier to be more engaged in the game.

[avatar_58]

Syberia 1 & 2 were good, you can't put those in the same sentance with Scratches. ;)

I haven't played 2 so I can't comment, by Syberia 1 to me (my opinion of course) was one of the bigger wastes of time I've had to endure. I played it through hoping it would get better, and it did a little.....only to end and basically should have said "If you want more, buy the sequel!". The whole premise was incredibly weak....the longest part of my gameplay was trying to hunt down some obscure thing I missed, only to further a story I could care less about in the first place. I also want to run that damn robot over with truck.......but then Kate and her damn phone conversations didn't help either.

The last "pure-adventure" game I played and truly enjoyed was Still Life, and even that I found the game's pacing to be a bit slow and repetitive.


I truly believe the only reason I gave Still-life the time of day was because I needed a new adventure game. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. In the span of the game nothing happened.....and the most interesting parts were played out in cut scenes. Don't get me started on the bad voice acting and the baking puzzle......and an ending that would make any lover of the genre cry.

[TheGreyMatter]

Of course, I'm not stupid. However isn't that the point of my post? There aren't enough good adventure games. How many bad ones versus good ones isn't a good excuse.....
it's not an excuse it's reality... you must understand that not you dictate which games will be out next year - the market forces dictate it.
as well you must understand that game companies dont wish to entertain you, but to make shitload of money (take a look at LucaStarwars)

and adventure games has less market -> less budget -> less professionals -> less games -> less quality games (by using my last post calculations).

Q.E.D

dont understand me wrong - I dont say it's should be like that, and I do not accept it, but you need to accept it or open your own AG studio . :frown:

[Litrick]

I haven't played 2 so I can't comment, by Syberia 1 to me (my opinion of course) was one of the bigger wastes of time I've had to endure. I played it through hoping it would get better, and it did a little.....only to end and basically should have said "If you want more, buy the sequel!". The whole premise was incredibly weak....the longest part of my gameplay was trying to hunt down some obscure thing I missed, only to further a story I could care less about in the first place. I also want to run that damn robot over with truck.......but then Kate and her damn phone conversations didn't help either.



I truly believe the only reason I gave Still-life the time of day was because I needed a new adventure game. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. In the span of the game nothing happened.....and the most interesting parts were played out in cut scenes. Don't get me started on the bad voice acting and the baking puzzle......and an ending that would make any lover of the genre cry.

Yep, that whole subplot with her boyfriend cheating was just weak...

Anyway, I agree and disagree with you guys, i think it is good people are trying to do new things. But i also would love to see developers still trying to make great traditional style adventures, oh wait, Bone, Runaway 2, El Emmo... Sweet :)

[avatar_58]

dont understand me wrong - I dont say it's should be like that, and I do not accept it, but you need to accept it or make your own AG studio . :frown:

You have no idea how damn much I want to do that and put and end to what I consider to be utter shit. :D However -

1) I couldn't run a business if I tried
2) The only thing I'd have any idea what to do is design work, planning and etc.....I wouldn't be able to do any actual work on the games.

So basically unless I took up a business course I don't expect to do this any time soon. Considering how little I want to throw everything I've got into a business venture I doubt it will ever happen. :frown:

[larrylaffer]

The reason why there are no good adventure games anymore (with the exception of a few rare gems) is quite simple. They have gone the same way as the music business, you buy a copy of Sugar Hill gangs 'Rappers delight' on 12 inch, you have got a 15 minute long record. That would be unheard of today.
The people who run the music and games industry seem to think that all we want is a quick adrenaline rush, a quick thrill something we can pick up,play and then leave 10 minutes later. They think guns=excitement, excitement= kerching!!! big moolah. Personally i am sick of seeing hey guys look its a fps...but with chickens!!!! or some such nonsense, i mean lets face it you play one, you played them all. I too long for the days of DOTT where i personally lost a good few hours playing it without realising it. However there is hope: Broken Sword the angel of darkness and a lot of the freeware adventures ( Crown of solomon case in point) are reviving a dying genre. It's jsut a shame so few people have the patience or time to actually play them.

[AdrianWerner]

I just want Paradise. Besides that this year is all about DarkMessiah, Heroes of Might and MagicV, Warhammer:Mark of Chaos and Medieval2 for me :)

And "defending the genre". It's not like all other genres are doing better. What about RPGs? THe overhyped Oblivion which has more to do with Redguard than Daggerfall. Where did the real good RPGs go? What about platformers? CHanged into some bizzare third-person shooters with furry animals. Fighters? No new good fighting IP in the last 5 years(at least on consoles, PC got MeltyBlood :) ). What I mean is that one can complain about almost every genre :)

[AdrianWerner]

Have you read about the action? You don't have to fight every fight, and its jade empire meets Kotor style, which is good.
Considering that combat in JE sucked like hell and the one in KOTOR played like a boring version of BaldursGate2, I don't know if it's a good recommendation :)

[AFGNCAAP]

Voyage to me had useless puzzles that didn't engage me at all. I don't like having to hit 40 buttons until something happens....If you think Voyage was about random hitting 40 buttons, I believe you didn't really give it a chance. http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showpost.php?p=258001&postcount=11

[insane_cobra]

Dont you see, its because of the perception that people will find a pure adventure game boring, that we are getting these horribly mutated new style adventures. Yes some of them may be good.. Indigo prophecy for example, but i ask you... if things need to move on so badly, why did we all enjoy the classics so much? We've also enjoyed being a yellow circle in a labyrinth very much, but things have moved on. When playing the classics I'm willing to cut them some slack, but it's not like I can't see how they could be improved, gameplay-wise (that may or may not include puzzles, btw), were we to rebuild them with today's knowledge and technology. But when a brand new game still adhers to those exact same principles, I'm sorry, but I get a little disappointed. At best I feel like patting its head and saying "You're a fine little game, yes you are."

[Cheerios]

It's jsut a shame so few people have the patience or time to actually play them.

Shame indeed. With the hectic lifestyles of today's society, everyone is in this fast-paced mentality and are always looking for quick fixes. I think that's why these fast-twitch games are so appealing.

Most people I speak to would rather watch a movie or read a book for quality storytelling. For some reason, anything that's a "videogame" is labeled as a waste of time to them :crazy:

[insane_cobra]

1) I couldn't run a business if I tried
2) The only thing I'd have any idea what to do is design work, planning and etc.....I wouldn't be able to do any actual work on the games. Welcome to the field of game design, my friend. :)

It still requires a lot of work, though. A lot of work.

[samIamsad]

The people who run the music and games industry seem to think that all we want is a quick adrenaline rush, a quick thrill something we can pick up,play and then leave 10 minutes later. They think guns=excitement, excitement= kerching!!! big moolah. Personally i am sick of seeing hey guys look its a fps...but with chickens!!!! or some such nonsense, i mean lets face it you play one, you played them all.


Alright, a large chunk of games published are pretty - how should I put it - shallow.This holds true to adventure games as well. Very, very much so.


First there were games and then the genres formed around them - now some people think it should be the other way around.

A man after me own heart. :)

Seriously, avatar_58, if you have already spent so much time (years even?) looking for that one adventure game(TM) that might come close to these ancient favourite adventure games(TM) of yours (and still haven't found it!), chances are you're never going to find it. ;)

[colpet]

It seems we always focus on what's wrong with today's adventures. For many of us, there's nothing wrong; we still have fun and anticipation with new releases. Games like Paradise and Scratches provide us with the entertainment we love.
Instead on focusing on changing existing adventures to suit your tastes, perhaps it's time to move on. Obviously many gamers here find nothing exciting with the new releases. So, find something you like to play. Don't carp and complain about what a game doesn't give you. Stop buying the stuff you don't like and focus on the games that interest you. There's so much talk about hybrids and other genres that encompass 'Adventure' elements that soon distinctions will be very blurry indeed.
I think that some gamers tastes evolve and change as they play games. They want something different every time - graphics, game play, storyline, etc. Those can be high expectations for any developer to fill. There's only so much you can change and still deliver the Adventure.

[phankiejankie]

Was Grim boring? did they need "innovation", did they need fighting? did they need directx 9 graphics?

Sorry but many "purists" of the times nailed Grim for being too innovative and not a point and click adventure. Actually the reason why its sales were that bad it was because the word of mouth advertising at first wasn’t very supportive... Luckily one of the best games of the century (exclusively my opinion), like misunderstood artists after their death, received the recognition it deserved.

[kuddles]

You know what? It's getting damn hard for me to defend this god forsaken genre. I love adventure games, I really do....however this has got to be the only genre where the past really IS better than the future. When the hell am I going to play the next big Monkey Island or King's Quest? No, not the damn IPs....let them rest, I'm talking in context here. When am I going to be able to play a NEW adventure game with interesting characters, a good plot and puzzles that are worth my time thinking about?
First of all, adventure gaming is stuck in a circular rut. Publishers don't think adventure games are worth buying, and practically all the developers making them are those left with severely limited budgets and are on the brink of closing their doors or being gobbled up by another company. When you're working under those contraints, would you take a risk? Waste time implementing a new gameplay technique that might end up turning people off? Charge full price for a game in a genre that nobody is buying? Innovation takes a budget, and only games with a substantial budget can try and take the genre in a new directions, and as the sales figures of Uru, Psychonauts, Indigo Prophecy, and Shadow of Destiny suggest, there's still no incentive for publishers or developers to continue taking those chances. I'm sure a lot of adventure game devs have considered multiple puzzle solutions, different story branches, real-time graphics, etc., but simply just don't have the resources to do it.

Second, a lot of your complaints are completely personal preferences. Personally, I have played quite a few adventure games that I thought were fantastic. You may have not liked the inventory puzzles in RTMI, but I thought they were brilliant, and there should be more like that. And I can tell you that I enjoyed Scratches much more than Grim Fandango, and Syberia much more than any Monkey Island game. It's your right to have an opinion, but I find it funny that you complain that the genre isn't trying anything new, and when people counter with examples of games that do try something new, you dismiss them as not working.

[Ninth]

I've already more or less said it, but since we're all repeating ourselves here, I might just as well go for it.

The problem with adventure games is the interplay between story and gameplay. They used to be gameplay-focused (i.e. focused on exploration/discovery and intellectual challenges), but with exploration came the need for story, which was at first just icing on the cake, until it started becoming a much more prevalent element.

And then some people thought that the right thing to do was to put more and more emphasis on the story, and (though why it should be a consequence of the first part is beyond me) limiting exploration (less hotspots, fewer conversation options...) and dumbing down puzzles.

So now, many adventure games are interactive, but can't justify their interactivity. They're games, but not fun to play as such. You're free to explore, except that there's nothing much to explore. You have control over your character, but absolutely can't change the course of the story.

For many years, many developpers have been doing the same stuff that led nowhere, wallowing in self-satisfied mediocrity. But I think it's changing, and I see three main directions:

1) Making 'games' which are not games anymore, but instead solely focused on story-telling and artistic merits, the gameplay being only a way to enhance the story-telling. I think this is what both Fahrenheit and Paradise are trying to do (and probably Dreamfall as well), though with different methods.

2) Returning to games that are actually fun to play as games. Kheops, with RTMI and Voyage, and TellTale are, I feel, going in that direction, and constantly improving.

3) Trying to make stories that are actually interactive. When I read that 'what makes the originality of Secrets of Da Vinci, apart from its plot, is the non-linear progression of the characters. As you progress in your quest, you have to choose between several branches, which means that each playthrough is different, and that several endings are possible', I do get interested.

Now, maybe you are not interested in those three directions. But at least I think people are now trying to do something with this genre.

So, instead of having yet another thread to bitch about stuff, what do you say we start discussing what we now want, what directions we'd like to see explored for adventure games? :)
Quoted because it's so true. ;)

I'm tempted to say that there is waaay too much complaining around here, but then again, that's part of the charm. :D

As far as I'm concerned, though, the adventure genre is doing well, producing lame (Westerner, Mystery of the Mummy), average (Moment of Silence, Darkfall 2) and great (Still Life, Myst 4) games. I'm happy.

[Panthera]

I said a mouthful on another forum, so I think I'll past it here.


What do these have in common? They are part of a genre thats having its ass kicked. I seriously have a hard time buying any adventure anymore, when the reviews aren't scaring me away the demos do a good job of it.

CSI - If that demo doesn't stop you from purchasing the game, you must be desperate.

Paradise - from the designer of Syberia. Nuff said.....boring story, no interaction, nothing but drab puzzles and slow moving characters. Hey, but its got nice backgrounds! Hoo boy! I thought adventure games were the one genre that didn't rely on graphics....

Crime Stories - Between the translation problems, straight forward gameplay and characters they expect you to know but can't unless your a native from its country....I don't know what to think on this one.

Scratches - I used to like wandering dank lonely locations, problem is Myst does it so well this game has little new to it. The demo kept me wandering the same rooms over and over again.....and it seems it gets no better from review impressions. Just what I needed, a game to force me to read a walkthrough or pull out my own teeth.

Dreamfall maybe be the only hope....but wait! Now we hear the added stealth and fight scenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay. Wonderful!

You know what? It's getting damn hard for me to defend this god forsaken genre. I love adventure games, I really do....however this has got to be the only genre where the past really IS better than the future. When the hell am I going to play the next big Monkey Island or King's Quest? No, not the damn IPs....let them rest, I'm talking in context here. When am I going to be able to play a NEW adventure game with interesting characters, a good plot and puzzles that are worth my time thinking about?

It really hurts when 10 or more adventure games come out in 2 months time and I only feel the need to buy one of them, simply out of hope. I think after I get Dreamfall I'm going to go back into dosbox and scummvm and play all the games I've missed, because at least they'll be new to me, AND worth my time.

Its nice to hope for a revival, but considering Indigo Prophecy was the only decent game to carry adventure elements in ages (and its not even in the truest sense of the word) I think I'm almost done caring. So lead on Dreamfall.....your the last real hope for this genre for me. I love other genres enough not to bother looking on the horizon of a genre that can only wow me 5 years between each game.


Your post always makes me feel bad for liking the adventuregames I do.. Like I'm really stupid, and don't know how to recognice a mediocre game when it's shoved up my nose.. ;(

I'm going to play CSI 3 when it's cheaper because I'm a sucker for the stories..
I'm anticipating Paradise, yes, becasue it's in a style I like, I really liked Syberia (not so much 2) and think Sokal does a good job. It's not bringing the genre forward, or bringing something new, but give him some slack. If this is how he wants to make AG's and he think's there's a market for it, why do he HAVE to reinvent the genre? What is wrong with making traditional AG's?

And Dreamfall have I been anticipating since I finished TLJ (witch was the first AG I played) and no bad review will make me not buy the game..

[fov]

Your post always makes me feel bad for liking the adventuregames I do.. Like I'm really stupid, and don't know how to recognice a mediocre game when it's shoved up my nose.. ;(

This conversation comes up again and again, and it always ends up making someone feel stupid for liking certain games. :frusty:

I'm with the person who commented early on... just play the games you like, and don't bother with the ones you don't. 'Nuff said.

[BuGz]

uhm... is Indigo Prophecy that good? :o
I think Dreamfall will be cool, even though it prolly won't have any brain buster puzzles as I read in the ign review. :crazy:

[Jackal]

Thanks, Kurufinwe. This post (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showpost.php?p=281169&postcount=22) saves me a lot of trouble. :D (I'd quote it, but Ninth just did. :P)

"I don't want games to be like yesterday's, I don't want games to be like today's, I want them to be like tomorrow's!"

The problem with the sort of complaining in this thread is that it's so pointless. Demanding fresh and new and innovative gameplay on a regular basis is unrealistic. It's unrealistic of ANY genre, let alone one that typically finds itself hamstrung by budget. Besides, no one has any clue what "tomorrow" should like for adventures. A game like Indigo Prophecy was a breath of fresh air whose gameplay should never ever be repeated. No future there. Dreamfall falls back on some age-old action elements to spice things up. Hey, no problem, but it's not new, and doesn't add any more today than it ever did.

Honestly, I think some people should just drop the charade of pretending they actually like adventures anymore. It's no one's fault; it happens. You reach a stage where you've seen everything a genre has to offer, and it's not enough anymore. It's true of any genre one plays extensively. I used to love strategy games, but now I'm bored to death of them. It's true of other media, as well. It's true of other forms of entertainment. Maybe we should all bitch about our plastic army men because all they do is stand there? It was good enough as kids, but not now that we're older. So change the toys to adapt to our changing tastes, dammit! ... Or maybe we should just acknowledge that it's us that's changed, and maybe there's nothing actually wrong with the toys.

So you've outgrown the genre. What's the point of blaming the games for that? Can adventures be made better? Hell yeah! Can they be more progressive? In some ways. But as Kurufinwe's post nicely states, these things ARE happening. Slowly, yes, but surely, at last. If none of them are good enough, really that says as much about the player as the play.

[Jelena]

It seems we always focus on what's wrong with today's adventures. For many of us, there's nothing wrong; we still have fun and anticipation with new releases. Games like Paradise and Scratches provide us with the entertainment we love.
Instead on focusing on changing existing adventures to suit your tastes, perhaps it's time to move on. Obviously many gamers here find nothing exciting with the new releases. So, find something you like to play. Don't carp and complain about what a game doesn't give you. Stop buying the stuff you don't like and focus on the games that interest you. There's so much talk about hybrids and other genres that encompass 'Adventure' elements that soon distinctions will be very blurry indeed.
I think that some gamers tastes evolve and change as they play games. They want something different every time - graphics, game play, storyline, etc. Those can be high expectations for any developer to fill. There's only so much you can change and still deliver the Adventure.

I agree!
I´ve only been on the forum since January (did no lurking before) and there are so much grumbling going on and on. I understand that a forum like this is the place where you really can dig deep into the topic. Many of the forumites are very articulate and loves the debate. I learn a lot about the genre and its history by reading your posts. But it amazes me that some people sort of gets stuck in the grumbling and complaining. If I was so disappointed with something I´d stop doing it and find myself something to enjoy instead.

[Ninth]

Honestly, I think some people should just drop the charade of pretending they actually like adventures anymore.
That's entirely true, but then again if they did drop this pretense, then they probably would stop coming here, and that would make the discussion one-sided and boring. ;)

[Jackal]

You think so? I find the same repetitive rhetorical arguments boring. I honestly wish there were more interesting threads about the games, themselves. Of course, that would require people actually PLAY them. :P

EDIT: Note that I'm not saying I wish people would leave. Though I honestly wonder why some people do stay, since they seem to hold the genre in such contempt. But there's still plenty of reason to have contructive debates. I just don't get the rants that don't really add much to anything.

[nrvllrgrs]

Adventure games are the foundation for all other games and without them no other genre would make sense. They are the story and meaning to any game. But, yes, adventure games are stuck because they aren't action-driven. Still I believe that there is still hope for pure adventure games. Given an evolution must occur, but it will happen. I have hope it will rise from fans and indie developers.

Besides that's what I'm going to school for. I would hate to have wasted so many years of my life for nothing. ;)

[fov]

Maybe we should all bitch about our plastic army men because all they do is stand there?

This is the best quote ever. :D

[Once A Villain]

Paradise - from the designer of Syberia. Nuff said.....boring story, no interaction, nothing but drab puzzles and slow moving characters. Hey, but its got nice backgrounds! Hoo boy! I thought adventure games were the one genre that didn't rely on graphics....

Well, I loved Syberia and Amerzone. Syberia is my #6 adventure game and I've played them for 16 years. So I'm looking forward to Paradise, thank you very much. :D

[JemyM]

What I liked with the adventure genré was that it sold on the story. I want a memorable experience. I want to laugh, I want to cry, I want to feel like I am in there with the characters. Few games offer that today and focus more on the actual "game" aspect than the "interactive story" concept.

But many genré's have shown that it's possible to deliver a nice story, even when the gamestyle suggest different.

Take First Person Shooters such as No One Lives Forever. Memorable characters, nice story, full of style. I do not let the genré FPS stop me from enjoying a such game. Or what about Call of Cthulhu or MYST V?

Take arcade-style adventures like Beyond Good and Evil, that frankly was awesome, packed by style & content. Or what about Fahrenheit?

What about semi-hack & slash "survival horror" adventures such as Silent Hill and Alone in the Dark?

It's the point & click / 2d games that's gone... The adventures are still out there for me. They are just called something else now and sometimes contain some buttonmashing, which doesnt effect me much when I run the game on easy.

[Steve Ince]

You know, my heart sinks a little each time I read a thread like this, not because people shouldn't complain, but because a part of me feels a little guilty for not providing the kind of adventures that people love to play. While I accept that The Sleeping Dragon wasn't to everyone's taste and some of the decisions made might have been a little ill-judged, I also feel for the other developers when their games are criticised. But whatever you do, don't stop complaining or we'll get complacent.

In a world with ever-tightening publisher funding, the chances of an adventure being created that can compete with multi-million-dollar blockbuster games is next to zero, which only compounds the vicious circle that such funding creates. So what do we have to offer the adventure player? What can we do within such a straight-jacketed regime? The only thing we can do is to maximise the resources we have to hand.

What this means is that, aside from a few bigger names, adventures are being put together by smaller teams who look for ways to give a rewarding experience to the player without the need to spend even hundreds of thousands of dollars. A good developer will learn to adapt and use those limitations to their advantage and give great gameplay that doesn't rely on expensive engines, tools and an army of animators. Perhaps some of them have only been making games in an era where such restrictions are a novelty and must now learn to explore what they can do within the limitations.

If adventure developers will rise to the challenge, I think that we'll see some exciting games, not because they are at the cutting edge of graphics and animation or have the sophisticated rendering techniques of Half-Life 2, but because they have quality gameplay. But most importantly, games that are developed by small, even one-man, teams will have a soul to them that 20 million dollars worth of effects will never have.

[Squinky]

If you're bored of commercial releases, you should play some amateur adventure games. Now THOSE are innovative!

(Unless, of course, you think amateur adventure games are poop because of their inferior production quality.)

[fov]

You know, my heart sinks a little each time I read a thread like this, not because people shouldn't complain, but because a part of me feels a little guilty for not providing the kind of adventures that people love to play.

But you have. Those people just aren't complaining. ;)

[insane_cobra]

True, it's just that you can't please everybody.

[Lucien21]

Some people are never happy unless they are complaining.

[insane_cobra]

What you're saying is true, but then again, some people complain because something's actually bugging them, not because they're complain-a-holics. :)

[tabacco]

What you're saying is true, but then again, some people complain because something's actually bugging them, not because they're complain-a-holics. :)
Yeah, but some people establish a bit of a trend.

[avatar_58]

What you're saying is true, but then again, some people complain because something's actually bugging them, not because they're complain-a-holics. :)

Yes, but isn't fun to just call them names? Instead of questioning the genre....lets just lie down and accept it....thats the trend I see in these replies. I'm not complaining for complaining sake, I'm actually concerned something is terribly wrong with the quality adventure games being praised these days.

As for that remark about the underground, I just might take you up on that. People always tell me the free ones try harder, maybe its time I gave up the $20 junkpile ones and went for the free 'from the heart' games. At least they don't have to bend to the will of the masses.

Also can people STOP blaming other genres? I happen to like all of them and when you say "fps are all the same" you come off as pompous and ignorant. The fps genre doesn't seem to have this rut problem, just adventure games if you ask me. The shitty fps are easily ignored because there are always 2 or 3 good ones to take its place. Whereas in this genre, if Dreamfall doesn't live up thats basically all we have for 2006....

[jjacob]

Also can people STOP blaming other genres? I happen to like all of them and when you say "fps are all the same" you come off as pompous and ignorant. The fps genre doesn't seem to have this rut problem, just adventure games if you ask me. The shitty fps are easily ignored because there are always 2 or 3 good ones to take its place. Whereas in this genre, if Dreamfall doesn't live up thats basically all we have for 2006....
You're *sooooooooo right*. No seriously, you deserve a hug for that remark :D

[Martin Gantefoehr]

but because a part of me feels a little guilty for not providing the kind of adventures that people love to play.

As long as we're dedicated to do our best, follow our hearts, and make the most out of our budgets and talents, I don't feel guilty at all.

[avatar_58]

You're *sooooooooo right*. No seriously, you deserve a hug for that remark :D

Really? I thought I would be the only one accepting the truth of it. :) Nice to know not everyone here is a genre purist.

Seriously anyone tried the game Condemned: Criminal Origins? You can't tell me "they are all the same" after trying this baby out. ;)

I hope Dreamfall gets here soon though, I need something from this genre to at least prove to me its still kicking. This year has been a bad one.....

[Jackal]

Yes, but isn't fun to just call them names? Instead of questioning the genre....lets just lie down and accept it....thats the trend I see in these replies. I'm not complaining for complaining sake, I'm actually concerned something is terribly wrong with the quality adventure games being praised these days.

It doesn't surprise me that's what you SEE in these replies. But of course that's not what anybody said. If you think AG forumites generally accept adventures unconditionally, you've mastered the art of seeing what you want to see.

Yes, you are complaining for complaining's sake. You've suggested nothing constructive, nothing concrete, nothing for the two (commercial) developers who have posted in this thread to learn from. So you want more big budget, blockbuster, reinvent-the-wheel adventures. Get in line, we all do. But if you can't find anything to appreciate in any adventures besides Dreamfall, then I'd say the common denominator is you, not the games.

[avatar_58]

It doesn't surprise me that's what you SEE in these replies. But of course that's not what anybody said. If you think AG forumites generally accept adventures unconditionally, you've mastered the art of seeing what you want to see.

Yes, you are complaining for complaining's sake. You've suggested nothing constructive, nothing concrete, nothing for the two (commercial) developers who have posted in this thread to learn from. So you want more big budget, blockbuster, reinvent-the-wheel adventures. Get in line, we all do. But if you can't find anything to appreciate in any adventures besides Dreamfall, then I'd say the common denominator is you, not the games.

Actually its YOU who cannot read. I never said everyone here accepts any adventure games. I simply stated that saying "stop complaining" seems to be the most common response to these threads. I thought forums were about discussion? Can I not discuss without being muzzled? Christ...

Also I never said I only can appreciate Dreamfall....I haven't even played the damn thing! :frusty: I'm simply saying that the adventure games released in the last few months have been subpar, and believe me I'm far from the only one who thinks so.

[RLacey]

Can I not discuss without being muzzled? Christ...That depends. Can you discuss without using the tone you are currently, which has the effect of insulting those who don't agree with you?

[Jackal]

Right, avatar. I can't read. :rolleyes:

Instead of questioning the genre....lets just lie down and accept it....thats the trend I see in these replies.

And spare me the drama about being muzzled, which is laughable on page four of a thread. There's a difference between telling you to shut up and suggesting you actually say something constructive and support your so-called "concern" with something useful.

I'm simply saying that the adventure games released in the last few months have been subpar

No, that's not simply all you've said. And since you've also written off Paradise already, it seems you're quite willing to project your own discontent onto all adventures, whether there's any merit to it or not (and it'd be hard to argue there's any merit in judging a game you've never even laid eyes on).

[jjacob]

Really? I thought I would be the only one accepting the truth of it. :) Nice to know not everyone here is a genre purist.

Seriously anyone tried the game Condemned: Criminal Origins? You can't tell me "they are all the same" after trying this baby out. ;)

I hope Dreamfall gets here soon though, I need something from this genre to at least prove to me its still kicking. This year has been a bad one.....
Nope, quite a lot of people here can appreciate a good FPS/hybrid ;) I've yet to try Condemned, but I hear it's even better than Call of Cthulhu, so I might be giving that a try soon.

[Litrick]

Sorry but many "purists" of the times nailed Grim for being too innovative and not a point and click adventure. Actually the reason why its sales were that bad it was because the word of mouth advertising at first wasn’t very supportive... Luckily one of the best games of the century (exclusively my opinion), like misunderstood artists after their death, received the recognition it deserved.

haha yes people complained about the controls, but that aside the game is a perfect example of a pure adventure... The game would have worked equally as well with point and click.
What i was meaning was, Grim didnt need to include some poorly conceived supposedly innovative concept like "hey, you can fight, or not fight, your choice!" to make it seem like it was worth playing. It was worth playing just as an adventure title, cause it was damn good...

[avatar_58]

Oh please, because my opinions and views are clearly not valid until I run out and buy the games right?


(and it'd be hard to argue there's any merit in judging a game you've never even laid eyes on).


I believe thats why we have demos, and when one comes out for Paradise I'll try it. However from just reading the preview its enough to tip me off to Syberia 3 as it should be called. What are you admitting, reviews and previews are useless? Maybe I should just buy based on the fact that its in a genre I like? No thanks.....caution is well advised when buying anything these days.

You claim I have attitude but it seems whenever I try to question the quality of beloved games I get a tongue lashing.

[SoccerDude28]

I'm with Avatar on this one. I've lost interest in adventures long time ago. The only adventures I was interested in last year were Still Life, Bone and Indigo Prophecy, the former 2 being sort of a letdown, and I am just not excited anymore like I used to be. To be honest, I'm really losing interest in more than just adventures, in games in general. I am spending less money on them, and I'm just bored of most of the releases being announced. Publishers are sucking the fun out of games, and half of them are just sitting on my shelf, and I cringe to even load them onto my hard drive.
But there will always be Tim Schafer, Ragnar Tornquist, Monsieur Ancel, Steve Ince (on a smaller scale :P ) and the crazy Japanese developers to keep me buying games.

[avatar_58]

Personally I'm forced out of the adventure genre by the mediocre. Oblivion shows me games are far from dead. ;) Its just the developers need to smarten up.

[Cheerios]

You claim I have attitude but it seems whenever I try to question the quality of beloved games I get a tongue lashing.

As a bystander, I must say that this is true.

[Cheerios]

Publishers are sucking the fun out of games, and half of them are just sitting on my shelf, and I cringe to even load them onto my hard drive.

Same for me. I have all these "newer" Adventure games, including Broken Sword 3, Syberia 2, etc. sitting on my shelf that I bought excitedly, but for some reason I just can't for the life of me find motivation to install and play them. Still Life was the only one I played through because the story and atmosphere grabbed me.

Gah, don't tell me I'm losting interest in adventure games as well :crazy:

[kuddles]

I'm simply saying that the adventure games released in the last few months have been subpar
No, you're acting like your personal opinion is fact. Just because other people found quality in Syberia, Voyage, Scratches, etc., you're insinuating that they must settling for mediocrity just because you didn't like them.

[tabacco]

You claim I have attitude but it seems whenever I try to question the quality of beloved games I get a tongue lashing.

That may be because your posts are abrasive and confrontational. Just a guess.

[NemelChelovek]

Avatar, it seems to me like all your comments are based on prejudice. CSI you judged by a demo, which I can understand. That's what demos are for. But that's where my understanding ends. With Paradise, you didn't like a game by the same guy, and thus this is automatically crap. Never mind that Paradise is being made four years after Syberia, and never mind that it's being made by a different company, and never mind that you haven't played or seen the game in action. You're just judging it by its predecessor. Paradise - from the designer of Syberia. Nuff said.....boring story, no interaction, nothing but drab puzzles and slow moving characters. Hey, but its got nice backgrounds! Hoo boy! I thought adventure games were the one genre that didn't rely on graphics....

Those sound like your impressions of Syberia, not of Paradise, because so far we have heard very little about the puzzles, interaction, or character animation.

Now, on Crime Stories, you just sound plain ignorant. "Characters they expect you to know but can't unless your a native from its country"...yeah, because it was originally made in that country. Kinda makes sense. We got it as an import. You sound, once again, like you haven't even played the game, and are going off of other people's opinions.

With Scratches, you dislike it because Myst did it better. Alright, I can understand and accept that. But let me defend it, because I really liked the game. Now, I'm a guy who likes his adventures to be 3rd person. Something about 1st person has always turned me off. I've tried Myst and others, but it's always seemed somehow...uninspiring. But in the three days I played Scratches, I was addicted. I had to know what happened next. It had a story I really enjoyed and, more importantly, was able to believe, and did something I've never seen done well: got me attached to characters whose faces I never saw. Like you, though, I played the demo and wasn't impressed. The demo, though, confines you to the bottom floor and gives you one puzzle to solve, which is odd, because in the actual game you generally have about three different things going on at once. The demo is really an inaccurate representation of the full game. The game itself is one of my favorites, and not just in recent years.

Dreamfall maybe be the only hope....but wait! Now we hear the added stealth and fight scenes are pointless and add nothing to the gameplay. Wonderful!
We hear this...from one review! A review that came out the day the game was released! A review that, no matter how widespread, still represents one guy's opinion. For the luvva Christ, at least give it a couple weeks to get settled before you take the reviewers' words as law. Or maybe play it yourself.

[Jackal]

Oh please, because my opinions and views are clearly not valid until I run out and buy the games right?

Okay, it's becoming clear that you're either not trying or are incapable of understanding anything I've actually SAID to you. If you're just going to make up my part of the conversation, I may as well let you continue alone. :shifty:

For the record, I could care less if you never buy another adventure as long as you live. I don't care if you dislike the ones you play, either. I know many, many people who feel the same way, and that's only counting people who give them the time of day in the first place. But apparently you don't know the difference between "I don't like anything" and "everything is bad", so your rant comes off as being pointless. Really it says more about you than the games.

I believe thats why we have demos, and when one comes out for Paradise I'll try it. However from just reading the preview its enough to tip me off to Syberia 3 as it should be called. What are you admitting, reviews and previews are useless? Maybe I should just buy based on the fact that its in a genre I like? No thanks.....caution is well advised when buying anything these days.

Again with the buying. I don't care if you like it or not, buy it or not. I simply pointed out the folly of announcing how bad a game is when you've never even seen it.

You claim I have attitude but it seems whenever I try to question the quality of beloved games I get a tongue lashing.

People criticize games all the time here. So as with the games, maybe ask yourself what YOUR role is in why this is going badly.

[kathrynrose]

I have been a fan of adventure games from almost day one. I couldnt get enough of the Sierra series such as the King's Quest or Gabriel Knight ones. I have not played all of new ones in this genre, however i did find rather a reborn of that adventure spirit with titles such as Syberia and Longest Journey. Our games are different from other genres, because i believe they tell a tale. They seem to require us to have a mind to reason, as action games require a great deal of dexterity. Im not saying one is better than the other, but why must we feel that all games must have a similarity with the others.

I work at a library, i have never heard a patron complain when he or she checks out a new mystery, why there is not some sort of sci fi, or romance in this title. People like different genres, this does not mean that a sci fi title is better or worse than say a mystery or a romance title. Its just what people like.

Cant we just judge an adventure game on its own merit instead of expecting it to encompass all other game genre features?

[avatar_58]

Okay, it's becoming clear that you're either not trying or are incapable of understanding anything I've actually SAID to you. If you're just going to make up my part of the conversation, I may as well let you continue alone. :shifty:

For the record, I could care less if you never buy another adventure as long as you live. I don't care if you dislike the ones you play, either. I know many, many people who feel the same way, and that's only counting people who give them the time of day in the first place. But apparently you don't know the difference between "I don't like anything" and "everything is bad", so your rant comes off as being pointless. Really it says more about you than the games.



Again with the buying. I don't care if you like it or not, buy it or not. I simply pointed out the folly of announcing how bad a game is when you've never even seen it.



People criticize games all the time here. So as with the games, maybe ask yourself what YOUR role is in why this is going badly.

Well thank you Mr. Compassionate, but quite frankly I could care less what you think either. Lets all just stop questioning the games and play them regardless of quality right? Must just be my problem. :Z

You want my opinion its you who needs the attitude readjustment. Your acting like I insulted you personally rather than the games.

[tabacco]

I think this thread has reached the end of its useful life.

As Jack said, perhaps you should take some time to consider why it's only you who seems to get "muzzled" by the community whenever you post.