Downloading games

[Steve Ince]

After the heated debate in the "New Business Model" thread (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=10363) and some of the reactions to the cost versus playing time in the "Bone" thread (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=10390) I'd like to pose some questions if I may.

I'm not comfortable with the idea of asking gaming fans to part with cash in advance of any development, so I'm trying to work out some way that will enable me to bring my game ideas to fruition. I would appreciate as many serious answers to the following as possible.

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?


Thanks for your time.

[Ninth]

1. 8 hours of gameplay is a minimum for me for this price. But 10 would be better (something like BS3).

2. Not very happy, since I like having the games as objects, but not so unhappy that I wouldn't purchase a game that's interesting me.

3. Yes, if the additional charge isn't outrageous, of course.

4. No limit.

5. Not to me. I don't care about the size.

6. No.

7. No. Not interested in casual games. Playing games is a "serious" activity for me.

8. Nope, it's not my cup of tea.

[bysmitty]

1.) $20 is an adequit amount for 4-6 hrs of quality gameplay for me. I think adventure gamers have been spoiled on years of low cost games. We are demanding better games but whine at the cost of producing them.:crazy:

2.) I rather enjoy the immediate satisfaction of buying downloadable games.

3.) I like the idea of paying extra for a physical format but I would recommend the download be made available to the people who choose this option. That way the customer can download and play the game right away and still get the pysical media later.

4.) No size would put me off downloading a game.

5.) I can't see why there would be much relation between style of game and download size.

6.) Yes I have paid and downloaded from a few other genres. rpg and puzzle

7.) No I don't play any casual games beside on my cell phone.

8.) Other thoughts. As much as I love adding to my game box collection, I really support the idea of smaller developers being able to publish their games directly and be able to keep more of their earnings.

Thx for taking the time to consult and listen to the community on the subject. I'm really looking forward to Juniper Cresent, best of luck.

...bysmitty

[jaap]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
Depends on the quality of the gameplay, you can easily extend the playtime with a maze or a ridiculously difficult puzzle, but that's not fair.
I would say that $20 is reasonable, however I think it would be nice if people who bought the first episode get some discount for the second.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
Although I'm a collector of boxes, I prefer adventure games distributed through internet over cancelled / not released cool adventure games.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
Yes, but I might wait untill a collectors edition comes out for all episodes.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
>1Gb

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
A text adventure is probably small :shifty:
I only care about AGs, so I cannot give a decent answer for this one.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
No

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
You mean those silly puzzlegames from popcap? I've never paid foir those neither.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
I's OK since a lot of money is not wasted on the package and distribution, and therefore de devoloper gets more money to continue its work.
However, if the game is a succes, a boxed copy would be cool.


Jaap

[Ninth]

1.) $20 is an adequit amount for 4-6 hrs of quality gameplay for me. I think adventure gamers have been spoiled on years of low cost games. We are demanding better games but whine at the cost of producing better games.:crazy:
I for one don't mind spending 50 euros if I'm garanteed at least 15 hours of gameplay, which is less that it used to be 10 years ago, when the average game was at least 20 hours long, and some could be incredibly longer.

Like I said, 4 hours is not enough, regardless of the price. It means it's over in an evening...

[Aurebesh]

Ok, here're my answers to your survey:

1. I don't measure it in hours of play, but it shouldn't be an episode-like game, it should be a full game.

2. Well, I very much hope that this method will become extinct, or at least won't take hold in the adventure genre. I don't want to buy games I can't "own".

3. Depending on the price, but basically, yes, it's much preferable.

4. No limit. And that's another thing that makes me dislike this distribution method - you must keep the game size relatively small.

5. Don't know what you mean.

6. I didn't.

7. Only if they were for free.

8. Only freeware or shareware (which I'll not register).

[Fien]

1. Hm... when people here say they finished the game in 5 or 6 hours, it usually takes me twice as long. :crazy: So I guess 5 or 6 hours would be okay.
2. Very happy.
3. Yes!
4. Don't know. I have a very fast broadband connection.
5. Eh... not sure what you mean.
6. Oh yes. In fact, the very first time I bought an online game with my brandnew credit card I downloaded the Infocom Masterpieces from the Activision site.
7. Yes.

[Snowden]

1. For $20 I want a little under 10 hours of gameplay.

2. I think downloadable content is a very good direction to go in. I see several benefits in doing so.

- A green solution: natural resources are saved, this includes all the material for producing the manual, the cds and the box.
- No more worries about lost or scratched cds.
- Having a box in my hands means nothing to me, I am the kind of person that rather owns less stuff than more.

For some games, getting a thick manual full of goodies can be a very nice treat. This is rare in my opinion and I would rather see background information incorporated into the game itself and a more user-friendly interface that needs no manual to explain it (or why not a simple tutorial?).

3. Simply put, no. See question 2.

4. With todays connection speeds, 40Gb+ would start to bother me.

5. No, if I want the game the style of the game does not influence the amount of content I am willing to download.

6. Yes. I have for instance bought and downloaded all of Valve's games through steam.

7. Casual games? You mean those sneaky little timewasters? No. :D

8. I think distribution of games through the internet gives more liberty to the designers of the games. The developers are not as easily pushed around by producers.

[Tramboi]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
4 hours is ok for me, I too think gamers have been spoiled.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
No too happy not having a box and having to manage numerous licence keys and other shit for all the stuff I download

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
Yep! But bonus content on the CD (not gameplay, maybe artworks, making of...) would be nice

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
No limit.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
Of course, in a technical sense. Ask farbrausch :)

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
Yep, NWN modules

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
Nope.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
We want a streamlined standardized process for buying, paying and managing our games, not 20 proprietary buggy solutions :)

*Goes back to work on boxed games ;) *

[Mimus]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

Hard to say really, as different people get a differently amount of 'gameplay' out of the same games. I don't tend to take my time with games. I'd say between 6-8 hours would be about right for $20

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Definitely. As long as the distribution systems are stable, easy-to-use and are hassle free I am very happy to buy my games this way in future.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

I wouldn't prefer it, but I still think it's a good idea.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

About 1 gig would be alright. If it was bigger, I would hope there would be some system to download it in parts, and start playing before the complete game has finished downloading, or preload the game in a similar style to Half-Life 2 (i.e. before it's released)

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

That's a game-thing. Different games have different resource requirements

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Yep, Half-Life 2

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

I've only downloaded demo and trial version of 'casual' games

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

Not really. I think it's a good way to get smaller games out into the public.




I hope that's helpful. :)

[dazsin]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

$20 is fine by me.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I personally dont have the internet on my own PC (yet) so its a bit of a problem for me (i use works computer for this) but when i do connect up on my PC, its no problem.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Yes

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

no size would put me off in theory

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

No

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Yes - free games from time to time, like when they released Beneath a Steel Sky for free (i only ever had it for the Amiga)

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

I think the download option AND the CD option should be available.

[squarejawhero]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

For me, it's quality more than time. If the game is short but really high-quality, then fantastic! I think there'd also have to be some kind of replayability factor in there too.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I'd rather have the boxes, as you have something physical and being poor like me means you can sell them on. Still, doesn't stop people selling keys, I guess. If it's the only way, then nothing I can do - as long as the game is worthwhile after the download, then wahey!

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

I think it's essential to offer this service alongside the download, so you can reach more people.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

If the games good enough, or hyped enough, people will wait. Nothing short of an overnight download would hack me off. There would have to be a way to "pick up" where you left off, bit-torrent style, for those who have to do it over a prolonged period of time.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

I can't see why it should... naturally, depends one what you're doing and the resources included in it.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Why pay for games you can get for free? Depends on the game, too. I'm not into puzzlers, so it's not for me.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

It hasn't quite proved itself yet on a low-budget level, other than casual gaming, but it's coming.

[Richard]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

Personally, I'd want a complete, satisfying story. That could be one in a series starring the same people, or with threads running through them, if following the episodic model, but even so, every game would have to stand alone as a piece of entertainment. My biggest objection to Bone's length isn't so much it taking four hours, as the idea of it taking four hours and then saying 'Okay! See you in a few months for another $20, unless we decide we can't be bothered, or go bust, or whatever'. The same applies to every episodic game I've ever seen - AGON, Halcyon Sun, etc.

In terms of time, I'd say 'decent length'. That's nebulous, I know, but adding a maze or ludicrously hard logic puzzles to bulk up the time would annoy me more than finding an enjoyable adventure brief.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Yes, in theory. One stickler is that I want to be able to take a CD backup, and potentially play it on my laptop on the move, so intrusive DRM of any kind is an immediate turn-off.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Probably wouldn't use it myself, but it would be good to know about.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

If I click the button to download it, I want it with me within the evening - so I'll say about 1GB as a maximum threshold, about 650MB as a comfortable amount, and under that obviously preferable.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Not really. If I want it, I'll download it. The real kicker's going to be persuading me that I do. For instance, a 1GB demo, even if unlockable, is a different call to a 200MB demo.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Yes.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Yes.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

It needs to be quick, fast and easy. If I want to buy a game, it should be a speedy process that doesn't get in my way - but more importantly, transparent. I'm not going to buy a game because of the business model specifically - only if the game itself warrants making immediate use of that easily accessible method of getting my hands on it.

[Fairygdmther]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
8 hrs or more

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
Not very happy, but I'll learn to live with it, I guess.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
Definitely.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
probably in the range of one Gb.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
No, the max size is the max size, regardless.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
Not yet.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
A few

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
Yes. There are many in the US who are unable to obtain broadband either for financial reasons or for location reasons. Even though I live in a large city, my corner of the world just got DSL access only 6 weeks ago. I have cable, but I know of several only a few miles from me who have only dialup as an option. Living just outside of the main cities may preclude anything but a dialup connection. You don't want to prevent these potential customers from buying your games. And d'loading via dialup could take days, and broken connections could ruin it.

I also have been on three different PC's in the last year and a half (don't ask), and I wouldn't want to have to redownload the game a second time to play on a different PC. Could the zip file be written to CD? That might make it more portable. I assure you this would be for my use only - I just have little faith in my PC's as this point.

Lynsie

[Martin Gantefoehr]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I think it should be six hours.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

For me, it's great. I'm not a box collector.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

No.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I don't mind huge downloads. Should be split into reasonable sections or use download managing software, though. The only really annoying thing about downloads is when a huge file aborts at 98% and you have to start all over again.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Yes. Prerendered stuff can make the files very large.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

I have a Steam account...

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Downloaded yes (demos), but never actually purchased one.

[RLacey]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
It's all about the quality. Four hours is fine if the game is especially good. As has already been suggested though, it needs to be a self-contained beast. I don't want to get to the end and find out that I have to buy the next game to get any form of plot resolution.


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
I like boxed copies, but the trend towards downloadable games is inevitable. I will buy games, and if they're only available as downloads then I'll buy them as downloads.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
This depends on how much you plan to charge. If it was at cost then I'd pay for it, but if it was going to cost me £10 then I'd just back up my download (grudingly).


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
VERY large. If I want the game, I'll download it.


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
I assume this is a continuation of your previous question? I don't see how it should...


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
In all honesty, not so far (that I can think of off-hand).


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
Downloaded, yes. Paid for, no.


8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
If the game is good then I'll be persuaded of the merits of the system. So far I've had no reason to purchase a game in this format, though. Interestingly (or not, as the case may be for you), I've found boxed copies in sales available more cheaply than the downloadable version. Certainly, you lose price-based competition as soon as the game is only available from once source as a download.

[Aj_]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
7-8 hours of gameplay, not many Adventure games are replayable, I'm paying for content quantity.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
If I can make as many copies as I like, I can use my maximum bandwidth to download, I can redownload when I want, and order as many CDs as I want for only the cost of the CD and shipping.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
Only if I was unable to get broadband.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
As long as it's served to me fast, 8GB is no problem, but I doubt many games would need it.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
Why would it?

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
Yes.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
Yes.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
Use BitTorrent, it's a great protocol, companies have started adopting it. It's easy to set up, it saves you money on bandwidth, built-in hashing system, you can pause downloads, and it's incredibly fast.

Protect who can download from your servers, encrypt the file so only the purchaser can open it, but after that no protection is going to work, it's only going to anoy the person who bought it.

[RLacey]

Use BitTorrent, it's a great protocol, companies have started adopting it. It's easy to set up, it saves you money on bandwidth, built-in hashing system, you can pause downloads, and it's incredibly fast.

I feel that I ought to add that BitTorrent still poses problems for some people. I've never made a BitTorrent download that hasn't been considerably slower than one from a standard FTP setup (I may be unlucky). And my university doesn't allow BitTorrent clients, as they lump them together with file-sharing.

[Moron Lite]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
It really depends on the game. I'm happy to spend $20 on a great 2D shmup / pure action game that lasts 2-4 hours (Metal Slug comes to mind). Adventure games are different, though, being more dependent on story and drawn out gameplay to provide entertainment. I'm basically with Richard: the story has to be "complete" and fulfilling in the way that most television episodes usually are, rather than a mere broken fragment of a complete story. I'm skeptical that any adventure game less than 6 hours can really do this.

The episodic model is something that needs to be really carefully thought out. If the game is very dependent on story (as adventure games tend to be), you're going to have to provide a fairly substantial amount of content per episode, because the interval between episodes is way, way longer than it is for television or comic books.

Half-Life 2: Aftermath is supposedly 1/3 the length of Half-Life 2, which sounds about right for an episode of that game. It's supposed to cost $12.95...I'd go up to about $17 for that.
2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
Perfectly happy.
3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
If the packaging was nice/cool enough, and I thought the game was worth it.
4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
Depends on how much I want the game.
5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
Desire more than anything. (I assume you mean, the size of the download I'm willing to accept.)
6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
Yes. Half-Life 2, off the top of my head.
7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
Several from Play First, such as Diner Dash, Oasis, and that subway game. A number of others as well, I'm sure. Came very close to buying Diner Dash, and I still might, but I'm too poor at the moment.
8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
Allow backups, redownloads.

[Steve Ince]

Thanks to everyone who's responded so far. Great food for thought and very encouraging. Keep them coming. :)

[Lucien21]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I think that is pretty subjective. How many people complained about paying £40 for Another Code which is about 5-6 hours in lenght. I feel that $20 is about £11 in the UK which is a budget priced game in the stores.

If the quality of the game was high enough price wouldn't enter into it as how can you compare the 60+ hours for Baldurs Gate against the 10-15 hours of the likes of Half Life 2. Games have neverbeen priced by the $/hour.

$20 is prefectly reasonable to me. however people are saying that $20 is the standard price for full lenght games in the US so maybe people are drawing a direct comparison.

I laughed recently when I heard they were complaining about the rise in fuel prices in the US from 20 pence/litre to 40 pence/litre when in the UK it is 95 pence a litre.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Perfectly happy, but would like the package to come with cover graphics and disc label pictures to allow me to print them and put on the CD when I burn it.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Not really, but I bet you get a different response from others this seems to be a sticking point. - It's just fear of change.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I have downloaded stuff up to 4 gb in size and larger so not bothered about size. More concerned with the speed of the download woulld be off putting.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Graphic intensive games like Myst 4 would be quite large, but I can't say i would be put off by its a strategy game, but it's too large.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No but I plan on downloading the SiN episodes when released on Steam.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Yes, but never paid for any. played the demos for the Jane Jensen games, but didn't purchase full version.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

Down with publishers I would rather put the money in the hands of developers like Steve andTelltale for their hard work than line the pockets of EA anyday. Online Distribution is the perfect way to release something worldwide direct to the market you are aiming for without being buried on the bottom shelf of GAME never to be seen again.

It guarantees a longer shelf life for Niche markets to allow sales to build up and fund future developments within the genre.

But the biggest problem is getting over the "I hate change" barrier and get consumers to change spending patterns. It's the old if I don't have anything solid in my hand I can't have bought anything routine.

[Kraken]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
I feel it is on the edge. Bioware offers Neverwinter Nights adventures with longer gaming time for $5-$10. However this being said while they do include original voice acting not every piece of dialogue is covered, nor do they have to create all the graphics from ground up and animate them as its already been done with basic NWN box that you paid $50 (plus $25 or so for each published expansion).

So judging from amount of work it does involve 20$ is not bad, however I personally feel something like $14.99-$18.99 would have been more attractive looking. Difference isn't big, but I think most shopping is feeling based. What most people end up looking is the lenght, four hours of gameplay doesn't feel much for $20.

My biggest problem is that I am not really Bone fan, would I pay $20 for same amount of Sam & Max, probably so? I think with just little lower price, I would do it more readily.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
I have no objection, however American/Canadian firms should really investigate about popular paying methods in EU. Full credit cards are much rarer among young people, but almost everyone has Visa Electron (the amount you pay is directly or with short delay paid from your account). For instance World of WarCraft allows Visa Electron, and it is the biggest online game in EU.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
No, CD is not required.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
I really have no limit, as long as there is smooth and working place to download it from.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
No, I am happy to download any size of game of any style as long as it intrests me.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
I downloaded and paid for business software, I have no problem of paying for downloaded games. I have also downloaded Bone demo. I haven't paid for 100% downloaded game yet, been considering. Haven't bitten the bait yet, so to speak.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
If casual means puzzles, arcade? I downloaded few free ones, but I have no interest paying anything for such.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
1) Payment options have to be there. Not just popular US ones, but EU ones too. I think EU even might have bigger fanbase in Adventure games, but this is just my speculation.

2) The method of payment needs to be easy and you need to trust the source. Website needs to make consumer feel safe.

3) I think its important that the people have a way to get a taste whats offered, especially when full/episodic game downloads are breaking trough.

[fov]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I don't really care how many hours it takes, I just want it to feel like an immersive experience. Okay, not so many hours that I sit down and finish the game in one sitting. I can usually play about 1-2 hours before I turn the game off and return to it later. So I'd say at least 3-4 solid playing sessions (not just retracing my tracks to get around an annoying puzzle or wasting my time being hopelessly stuck) seem reasonable for $20.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Not happy to, but willing to if it's the only option.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Yes. I'd also like to be able to download a high-res CD insert so I could burn the installer to a CD and have it be sort of professional looking.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I'm on cable, so I don't really care how big it is. Back when I was on dial-up I left the computer on all night downloading King's Quest 2 VGA (and it was worth it!) I'd still be willing to do that, and with cable, that means the game could be pretty huge.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Not sure I understand this question. :confused: I'm not going to decide not to download a game I really want to play because of the download size, if that's what you mean. But even if a game's small, if it doesn't interest me I'm not going to download it at all.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Not for my own benefit. :D I have downloaded a few that seemed adventury, to see if they're something I might want to cover for AG.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

I prefer a physical product (it's one of the reasons I'd rather find a boxed oldie in a store rather than downloading it from an abandonware site) but if the download model allows developers to make better AGs, I'm all for it.

[Tanukitsune]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

-Four does seem like too little, maybe 6 or 8 hours would do the trick?

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

-I don't mind online payment, but as a collector I'd rather have something I can hold in my hands, and not just a file in my hard drive...

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

-See 2, I always prefer the CD even if it more expensive sometimes...

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

-Since I bought Half-Life 2 Gold, I guess I would mind how big the file is as long I could resume or redownload if something happens while it downloads...

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

-I'm not sure what you mean, but if you mean thinking that a large file games should be better than a small one, then no...

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

-Like I said before I bought Half-life 2 Gold from Steam and I also have a Real Arcade Game Pass.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

-See 6. I have Real Arcade and I'm not afraid to admit it!

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

-As a collector, I don't like I own a game unless it's on a CD, cartridge, or DVD, but if the game is only availible for download then I have no option...

[Ninth]

Not really, but I bet you get a different response from others this seems to be a sticking point. - It's just fear of change.

No, it's the desire for an object. It's like you said that downloading and printing a book is the same thing than buying a real one.

[Tanukitsune]

No, it's the desire for an object. It's like you said that downloading and printing a book is the same thing than buying a real one.
Also you can't show off a file, but you can show off a Jewel CD case... :P

[Aj_]

I feel that I ought to add that BitTorrent still poses problems for some people.
Its popularity suggests this number is low.
I've never made a BitTorrent download that hasn't been considerably slower than one from a standard FTP setup (I may be unlucky).
There are several reasons why this could be the case. It's hardly worth mentioning, there are a number of problems from both server and client that can happen with http or ftp file transfer.
And my university doesn't allow BitTorrent clients, as they lump them together with file-sharing.
Well, it is file sharing, and it would be unusual to allow ftp transfer, but not bittorrent transfer, they don't work the same way but they can essential do the same thing.

No, it's the desire for an object. It's like you said that downloading and printing a book is the same thing than buying a real one.
Seems completely irrational to me. There are rational reasons for wanting a game in CD form though, but if you personnally would get the exact same functionality then that doesn't make much sense.

[Jackal]

A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I would probably say 6-8 as a minimum. But that's a REAL 6-8, not a publisher's version of 6-8. :D This is all arbitrary, of course, but I think it's necessary to carry a game's entertainment through at least two full gameplay sessions. There are plenty of people who will race through a 4 hour game and be done in one sitting or one day. Arbitrary or not, that's not going to feel like good value. Most people won't/can't do that with even a 6 hour game.

Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Certainly not my preferred option, but I'm resigned to it. There are some changes that would make it more acceptable, as have been mentioned here. Printable inserts, permanent one-off downloads, etc. (In this case, "etc." means "that's all I can think of. :P) Well, a nice manual, too, such as Bone's. Basically, anything to let the player turn their download into an approximate substitute for a commercial physical product.

If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Ideally, yes, but it depends on how much "additional" means. It can't be very much more.

If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I've downloaded 1 gig demos, so really no practical limit.

Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Nope, not so long as the content justifies the file size.

Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Nope.

Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Nope.

Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

It's a logical step for games, so I'm glad to see it starting to get off the ground. Not as a replacement for making physical products, but as a viable alternative.

[fov]

Seems completely irrational to me. There are rational reasons for wanting a game in CD form though, but if you personnally would get the exact same functionality then that doesn't make much sense.

Since when do people's preferences have to be rational? I want a game on a CD, in a box, just because I want one. I shouldn't have to justify my reason for wanting one - I just do, and I get to choose how I spend my money. ;)

EDIT: Woo! The non-retarded winking smiley is back!

[Fien]

No, it's the desire for an object. It's like you said that downloading and printing a book is the same thing than buying a real one.

Exactly.

I want the CD and/or manual and/or box. Because it's tangible, because it's beautiful, sometimes even because it's ugly, because the CD has many scratches and has changed many hands, because it is in mint condition and I'm the first owner, because...

I could never explain that to someone who thinks I am simply afraid of change.

[AudioSoldier]

I'll respond to your first point:

Although this is not always applicable for adventure games, there are many titles out there that offer a meager 10 hours of gameplay for the price of, say, $50. Bone is $20 and depending on the time you take with the journey, you could experience more than six hours of enjoyment. Although, admittedly, this is the prediction of the overly optimistic developers. Still, $20 is not a hefty sum of money by any means and as Telltale rake in the revenue they may well see fit to drop the price somewhat. Just my thoughts.

[Ninth]

Seems completely irrational to me. There are rational reasons for wanting a game in CD form though, but if you personnally would get the exact same functionality then that doesn't make much sense.
There's more to an object than just functionality, (as) you (should) know.
And in any case, a burned CD with a sticked insert is not as nice as a real CD you buy in a store, plus it's a pain to burn a CD anyway.

EDIT: Three posts too late. Wow.

[Aj_]

Since when do people's preferences have to be rational?
When they want them to become actual products.

There's more to an object than just functionality, (as) you (should) know.
Yeah, I think people who want boxes and CDs to mount on their walls to admire should pay more for the pleasure, instead of the majority of people who just want to play games paying more.

[toger]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

If it's entertaining gameplay, then it really doesn't matter that much. I've paid far more for games. If I'm bored out of my mind, then any price is too much. I too think that adventure gamers have been spoiled by too many cookie cutter/budget games priced at $20 to where they feel a game priced out of that range is "expensive".

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Yes. I'm not a box person. I've thrown out more boxes than I've kept. As long as I can burn it to a CD on my own if I wish to move it to another computer, I'm a happy camper.

On the other hand, I'm on dial-up so I have a friend with high-speed access download and burn stuff for me.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Maybe. It would save me (friends) from having to download it.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

Doesn't matter. As long as my friends have the time to do it, it's a non-issue.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

No.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Yes.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

No. I'm not really a "casual" game person.

[Fairygdmther]

To assign the premise that people are afraid of change instead of looking at the actual reasons is ignoring the facts, to pad your own argument. I literally have some of the same games on three different computers, only one of which is usable right now. Having a game on a CD means that I can use whichever PC is currently working to play it. And many still have dialup, and a download that large is impossible when your d'load is 2-3 kb/sec. ( I used to get from 1.7-3.3 kb/sec on dialup.) Not everyone can get broadband, either financially or due to their location. Are those rational enough reasons for you?

Lynsie

[fov]

Yeah, I think people who want boxes and CDs to mount on their walls to admire should pay more for the pleasure, instead of the majority of people who just want to play games paying more.

Do you not see people saying they're willing to do just that?

Developers / publishers have an opportunity here. If the buyer is willing to pay more for a physical product or less for a download, and it's feasible for the person selling their product to do so, then make them available both ways, make more people happy, and generate more revenue. If it's not feasible, then the dev has to make a choice - but that doesn't mean the consumer has to buy it.

The decision to buy a download if that's the only version available is a personal choice. Those who want a physical product are under no obligation to buy a download if the developer chooses not to put out a physical product. It's the consumer's decision, and arguing with the consumer that he's wrong is only going to result in the consumer getting pissed off and feeling even less inclined to spend the money on something he doesn't really want.

Personally, I think it's great that Steve is even asking the question. You're a lot more likely to end up with what customers actually want this way, than assuming you know what they want and basing your business model on the expectation that they'll conform to your (potentially incorrect) assumptions.

EDIT: Btw, one more thing on playtime - I have been playing Broken Sword 3, on and off, for about two months... usually a few hours at a time, once or twice a week, with stretches in between where I played something else instead. This is a short game? Sure doesn't feel that way to me. It feels worth more than the $20 I paid for it, actually.

[littleguybrush]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?
Depends on the quality of the game but 4 hours is to short. 6-8 hours of gameplay would be better.


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?
Not so happy. I prefer having them on a nice shiny cd.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?
Yes


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?
No limit as long as you can download it at a nice speed.


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?
I don't see a connection between download size and game style so can't say I care.


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?
Never bought games online


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?
No


8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?
I can live with downloading games if I have to but I don't like games to be split in episodes. One great story will always be better then 6 small ones.

[Aj_]

Do you not see people saying they're willing to do just that?
You, and a few others, but the people who put restrictions on it, they don't seem to be willing to do that at all.

[Melanie68]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I would say 6-8 minimum.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I could live with that. It seems many programs are offered this way (non gaming)

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Once I download something, I don't really have the need to have it on CD (with other programs) but there is something about physically owning a game. The most recent thread about Day of the Tentacle in the triangle box - people were drooling over that game. It's part of the experience.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

With a decent computer, size wouldn't be a factor.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

No

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Yes

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

I think it's a good way to go for a smaller company that may not have the resources for packaging and distribution.

[EvilMulder]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?It's about 2/5 the price of a full game, so I want 2/5 the lenght. Which would be about 8 hours for me.2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?It find it as viable an option as bying it in the store.3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this??Personnaly, no. I wouldn't want to wait for shipping.4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it??Actually I think it would be the reverse for me. If the size was too small I would be hesitant to purchase, thinking it to be unimpressive since quality textures etc take up space. The larger the size the more impressed I would be.5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way??No.6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres??Yes, a couple of times.7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games??Yes, I've purchased the puzzle game Aargon

[Captain Blondebeard]

1. 8 hours of gameplay is a minimum for me for this price. But 10 would be better (something like BS3).

2. Not very happy, since I like having the games as objects, but not so unhappy that I wouldn't purchase a game that's interesting me.

3. Yes, if the additional charge isn't outrageous, of course.

4. No limit.

5. Not to me. I don't care about the size.

6. No.

7. No. Not interested in casual games. Playing games is a "serious" activity for me.

8. Nope, it's not my cup of tea.
My thoughts mirror ninth's in every way.

[Tanukitsune]

You know, some sites offer the chance to buy the CD and get the download as well, like Starscape...

[Quadriflax]

I'm not comfortable with the idea of asking gaming fans to part with cash in advance of any development, so I'm trying to work out some way that will enable me to bring my game ideas to fruition. I would appreciate as many serious answers to the following as possible.
Honestly, I think this might be something worth exploring. Some third party could gather bids or pledges to turn over cash when a certain amount of work has been completed. I'm not saying it would be easy to work out the details, but I could possibly see something like this working out. Especially for niche markets like adventure games. I'd pay money upfront if I had some kind of guarantee that Sam & Max would be made as a result.

1. It does seem a bit much, but I honestly can't say I know how much would be a good amount. It would seem arbitrary to say $10 without knowing how good each part is. I've never been one to follow the "X hours of gameplay" model because it doesn't seem to work like that for me, especially lately. I have so many starts and stops I can't keep track.

2. I don't really like it, to be honest. I like to have something physical in my hands. Downloading seems too cheap. I know it keeps costs down, but I would like an actual pressed CD with a manual and everything. A box is not necessary, but would be a plus. I think maybe DVD cases are the way to go, and I'm surprised more PC games aren't in them.

3. Yep. I sure would. It almost verifies that if something happens to your company I can still play/have access to my game. I wouldn't have to figure out where I could download it from again if I lost it or my backup got destroyed (I've had a number of CDRs go bad on me lately).

4. I think anything over a gig would probably make me think twice. But it wouldn't stop me out right, because I could just leave it on over night, or at least for a few hours.

6. I downloaded Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. It was a free release that was at least a couple hundred megabytes if memory serves.

7. Nope.

8. Just to restate that I like to have something real in my hands when I pay money. Paying to download something seems ... wrong. But that might just be the collector in me. I still have original boxes from some of my old Sierra and LA games (as many of us here do). That's part of the fun for me. I'd have to really, really be interested in a game to d/l it without any kind of box, CD, or manual. Sam & Max fits that bill, I don't think Bone does.

[artwking4]

1. 8-10 hours would be nice.

2. Yes, yes I am. But ONLY if it's cheaper than a boxed version with printed manual.

3. Only if it came with extra "goodies" and the shipping didn't cost too much.

4. It would have to be bigger than what I could burn to a single DVD.

5. I'm not sure what you mean. So I guess not.

6. Not unless you count Pocket PC and Palm OS games. Also, I'm looking into the whole GameTap thing.

7. Not for purchase, although Bejeweled is kind of fun. And Telltale Texas Hold'em.

8. I love the possibilities it offers in the global sense. Being able to buy a game that was developed and released in Germany or England or something, but not officially published in the US. And not having to pay for shipping and handling, or having to wait for it (except for the download).

[Kolorabi]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

The more, the better - remember, there are quite a lot of games that retail for $20 and still offer more gameplay time than your average full-price title.

It depends on what kind of gameplay I get, really, but I wouldn't complain if it was somewhere between 6 and 10 hours.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Not very happy about it, but I will do it if the game in question is good enough.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Definitely (and whenever possible, I do this today).

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

1 GB or so, with my current connection.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

I don't know.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Yes.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

Yes.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

I want to "own" the game when I've bought it. I want to pay for it, and then be able to do whatever I want with it - including burning it to a CD and installing it on a computer without access to the Internet.

And I want to repeat that I'd really, really like a CD-version. Preferably boxed in a DVD case or something. Like for instance Moonpod and Nurium offer with their games. A printed manual isn't a "must", but I would appreciate it.
Thanks for your time.
No problems, I'm waiting for the TrackMania Original Beta to download.

[Kaelistus]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

6-8 hours. Extrapolating from the fact that I would be willing to pay $10 for four hours of gameplay. RtMI hit that sweet spot pretty well.


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I throw away boxes anyway, so downloadable contant is fine.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

No.


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I don't care. Though if its too big, then you better have a resume option!


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

I don't care.


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

Yes. I've purchased a number of shareware classic action shooters. The only classic shooters out there are shareware - though many of them are incredibly well polished.


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

No.


8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

I strongly dislike internet verification for reinstalling. I had a very cool arkanoid type clone that I bought once and then the company went out of business, leaving me stuck with no game as soon as I reinstalled. I will not buy another game that requires internet verification again.

[After a brisk nap]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I'd rather pay less for a shorter game than more for a longer one. I want an adventure game I can finish in a weekend, so no more than ten-twelve hours. But again, I'd rather have a four-six hour game for $10 than a twelve-hour game for $20.

2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Thrilled. See website, desire game, pay, download, play. No stupid going to the store or waiting for a CD in the mail.

3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Probably not, unless it offered some other bonus. I think a lot of people would, though. It's nice to have the option.

4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

About 1GB. Anything below that would be OK if the server is reasonably fast. A bigger download might be fine, too, but I would expect it to take a long time, and that might put me off trying.

5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Probably not, although I might be annoyed if the game seems like it didn't need to be that big. (Facade is an example of a game that seems like it could have been a smaller download.) Throw in a couple of video sequences (like The White Chamber did) and the download size will seem justified.

6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No, I don't think so. I've downloaded and paid for a couple of different adventure games, though.

7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

I think none of the casual games I've played have required a download (apart from loading into Flash player or whatever), and none of them have required payment. I was thinking of trying Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates, but never got around to it.

8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?

If you download games, the terrorists win.

...
Oh, you meant intelligent thoughts? No.

[Ninth]

EDIT: Btw, one more thing on playtime - I have been playing Broken Sword 3, on and off, for about two months... usually a few hours at a time, once or twice a week, with stretches in between where I played something else instead. This is a short game? Sure doesn't feel that way to me. It feels worth more than the $20 I paid for it, actually.
11 hours. And that's not counting the fact that cut scenes are unskippable. Without this, it would go down to 8 or 9, probably.
So yes, it's short, albeit not obscenely short like Lost Eden or Amerzone.

[Richard]

11 hours. And that's not counting the fact that cut scenes are unskippable. Without this, it would go down to 8 or 9, probably.
So yes, it's short, albeit not obscenely short like Lost Eden or Amerzone.

BS3 was a decent length. It had enough time to tell an interesting story, without too much needless faffing around thrown in. Crate puzzles aside, I mean. I don't know anyone else's viewpoint, but while I've always liked the feeling of using my head to get through a game, I don't get much out of getting stuck for days on end trying to work out what to do any more. I like the story to progress at a decent lick and remain interesting - to have an environment I can play with, rather than an obstacle course to traverse.

[fov]

11 hours. And that's not counting the fact that cut scenes are unskippable. Without this, it would go down to 8 or 9, probably.
So yes, it's short, albeit not obscenely short like Lost Eden or Amerzone.

I just think the playtime numbers that are tossed around are pretty arbitrary. I did not get far in Amerzone, but I played a good two hours and never got out of the explorer's house. Everybody goes on about what a short game it is, which must mean that the fact that it took me so long to do such a small portion of the game is an anomoly... either that, or I'm really stupid. :shifty: Or maybe, just maybe, that its label as a short game is meaningless -- but no, that couldn't possibly be it. ;)

I generally don't keep track of my playtime, but did for Voyage and am for Bone, for curiosity's sake. Voyage took me 13 hours spread out over a week and a half. If I hadn't been trying to meet a review deadline it would have probably taken me 13 hours spread out over three months, and although the hour amount would have been the same it would have felt like a longer game to me.

I guess my question is, is one experience worth more than another? Is it a developer's fault that some people like to sit down and play in one sitting, and those people expect the sitting to take a certain amount of time? As for Bone - people have finished it in 2-3 hours, apparently. They must have been enjoying themselves to play the whole thing through in one sitting, yet they immediately turn around and complain that the game was too short and how dare they be charged $20 for it. The player has to take some responsibility. If you know it's a short game and you want it to last longer, don't play the whole thing all at once!

Sorry, not meaning to rant. I'm just frustrated, I guess, because I don't think these numbers should be used as a yardstick. If I had to choose between 4 hours of a really good, immersive, story-driven game made by people who clearly care about making a good, immersive, story-driven game, vs. 15 hours of boring-as-hell gameplay that only takes that long because you have to traverse over a ton of empty screens doing pointless tasks like delivering an inventory item from one boring character to another boring character... well, let's just say I'd rather play the 4 hour game, and I'd even pay more for it. Quantity is not a measure of quality.

[Martin Gantefoehr]

Originally Posted by fov
EDIT: Btw, one more thing on playtime - I have been playing Broken Sword 3, on and off, for about two months... usually a few hours at a time, once or twice a week, with stretches in between where I played something else instead. This is a short game? Sure doesn't feel that way to me. It feels worth more than the $20 I paid for it, actually.

Absolutely, and I think retail prices like that pose some serious problems for the pricing of "short games" or episodic content.

I, too, feel that 20$ for a 4 hour game episode is probably overpriced -- but on the other hand, 20$ for a full-package standalone title like BS3 is obviously underpriced.

[crabapple]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

8 hours minimum, assuming that 8 hours is quality gameplay and not padded.


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I'd rather have a physical copy. If I download a game, I expect to be able to make my own fully functional physical copy without any restrictions.

I've been buying AGON, but each episode is more like $10, not $20. (The exact price varies slightly with currency exchange rates). Each episode of AGON game has taken me more than 4 hours, though maybe not much more in the case of the earlier episodes. The people who are making AGON are working on making the next episode longer because of complaints that the game was too short. Now you're talking about charging twice as much for something that's no longer than an AGON episode.

When AGON first came out they had an online activation system that caused people so many problems that they gave it up and went to sending you a reusable key that would unlock the game after installation. So after you buy it you can copy both the installer file and a text file with your key to a CDR to back up your game. This is a very important feature in my opinion. I don't want to buy a downloadable game unless I can back it up. Hard drives don't last forever.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

It would depend on the shipping charges and what was included with the hard copy of the game. I don't want to pay any $35 postage just to ship a game CD in a jewel case.


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

Oh... 10 GB maybe. Depends on the speed of the connection. I have cable but never get the download speed I'm supposed to. But a download could be pretty big as long as I could just let it go overnight and not have the download slow down my browsing.


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Yes. Prerendered games and games with FMV are going to be larger than real time 3D games. But why are you asking this? Did you mean to ask whether I'd rather have the game real time 3D if the download would be smaller?


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No. Usually I only download free games.
AGON was an exception.


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?


Yes. Free ones. Like "Atomix" for OSX. Or "Sloppy Sokoban." I haven't downloaded that many though.


8. Have you any other thoughts on downloading games?


I don't want my replaying the game at some future date to be dependent on the game company still being around.

[dnldnl]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

4 hours in length is pushing it, but I would pay $20 for such a short game as long as other things are there to compensate for the lack of length (e.g. interesting story, fun and easy gameplay, reputation of the developer ;), maybe eye-candy graphics).


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

I am highly reluctant to purchase downloadable content.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

Depends on the additional charge, but I am more likely to buy a game in a CD format than in electronic downloadable format, despite the additional charges and shipping costs. Also, my ideal purchase would be a CD/DVD in a DVD-style case (not in the box).


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

Does not matter.


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

Not to me.


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No.


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

No.

[Steve Ince]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. They have really helped me out a lot. I have a much clearer picture on the subject and it will help in formulating my plan.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/owen/PBsmile1a.gif That mean the respondents will each receive a free t-shirt that says "Steve Ince is t3h g0d" ?

[Steve Ince]

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/owen/PBsmile1a.gif That mean the respondents will each receive a free t-shirt that says "Steve Ince is t3h g0d" ?
For a nominal fee of only $20. :D

[Reptil3]

1. 8+ hours
2. Yes if it's the only way to get the game (ie. game won't be published in my country in predictable time)
3. I don't think so. But if there was nice box, booklet etc. I'd consider it.
4. Don't care
6. If steam or pda games count, then yes.
7. Nope
8. Hardware fingerprint is stupid idea.

[Fop]

1. A number of people feel that the price of $20 for four hours of gameplay (Bone) is a little too much. What would you feel is an acceptable amount of gameplay for $20?

I think $20 is about right. It's exactly one third of what I pay for new games, and they often fail to keep me interested 10 hours. I wouldn't mind six hours of gameplay.


2. Now that online payment and downloadable content is here to stay, how happy are you to buy your games this way in future?

Only because we don't get proper packaging anymore. The DVD boxes suck, so I don't care anymore. I'd rather pay the developer than the publisher.


3. If an alternative format (CD, say) was offered for an additional charge, would you prefer this?

No.


4. If you downloaded a game to play, how big would the download be before it put you off downloading it?

I might hesitate to download something the size of a DVD.


5. Does the size of the download depend on the style of the game in any way?

No.


6. Have any of you downloaded and paid for games in other genres?

No.


7. Have any of you downloaded any "casual" games?

No.

[Ninth]

I just think the playtime numbers that are tossed around are pretty arbitrary. I did not get far in Amerzone, but I played a good two hours and never got out of the explorer's house. Everybody goes on about what a short game it is, which must mean that the fact that it took me so long to do such a small portion of the game is an anomoly... either that, or I'm really stupid. :shifty: Or maybe, just maybe, that its label as a short game is meaningless -- but no, that couldn't possibly be it. ;)
It probably took me two hours getting out of the explorer's house too. It's just a third of the game.

If I had to choose between 4 hours of a really good, immersive, story-driven game made by people who clearly care about making a good, immersive, story-driven game, vs. 15 hours of boring-as-hell gameplay that only takes that long because you have to traverse over a ton of empty screens doing pointless tasks like delivering an inventory item from one boring character to another boring character... well, let's just say I'd rather play the 4 hour game, and I'd even pay more for it. Quantity is not a measure of quality.
That's not really the point. Bone hasn't 4 hours of really good, immersive, story-driven game, or else the demo would have been a thousand times better, and there are heaps of great game out there which last 15 hours or much more.

And in any case, I have trouble seeing how a game of 4 hours could possibly be satisfying, no matter how good it is.

[Richard]

And in any case, I have trouble seeing how a game of 4 hours could possibly be satisfying, no matter how good it is.

I don't. The key would be to drop plans for an epic, world-spanning quest, and look at ways to spend that time more interestingly. For example, you could do a Sherlock Holmes style game that's four hours of tight, investigative drama, or a tense spy mission, or simply episodic content that's four hours of laughing your backside off. Or a zillion other things.

Where it's going to go wrong is if people start asking 'How do we crunch games like XYZ into four hours?' instead of 'What can we do with these four hours?'

[Ninth]

I don't. The key would be to drop plans for an epic, world-spanning quest, and look at ways to spend that time more interestingly. For example, you could do a Sherlock Holmes style game that's four hours of tight, investigative drama, or a tense spy mission, or simply episodic content that's four hours of laughing your backside off. Or a zillion other things.
Okay, but then I would have trouble convincing myself to pay 20€ for it. I probably would, though.
5 days a stranger was a really neat game, and probably not more than 4 hours long.

[peb]

1. 8hrs+
2. Fine with me.
3. Having the option to do this would be nice. I would think it would be easier to reinstall this way if by chance my computer crashed for some reason (speaking from experience unfortunately).
4. I have broadband so it would have to be extremely big and difficult before I would be put off. Bone only took me a few minutes to download so it could be much bigger than that.
5. No
6. Yes
7. No
8. Although I do have a number of game boxes in my closet that I refuse to throw out, I actually like downloading games and not having to deal with installing by disc and the constant disc-swapping. Since I'm a fan of less popular genres like...well, adventures, I appreciate having an easy method of purchasing these games rather than banging my head in some game store trying to get some saleskid to understand what I want.

[mariusmal]

i live in portugal and mostly everywhere u can find cable service, but the bad part is u are limited for 1 or 4 gigas a month of international traffic... and that my friends sucks big time