Nintento Revolution Controller...and adventure games

[Wrath0]

Will be perfect for point and click adventures....

[squarejawhero]

I don't see it that way. I'd like to see it interact more physically with the environment... in the trailer, a guy opens a door by actually using the controller to do so, rather than point and click at a door. Another Code works like this and it's absolutely superb... spinning things, blowing things, pressing the screens together to create an effect... I can imagine doing more than taking a cursor and clicking, I can imagine emulating what you physically need to do.

It'd be incredible.

[After a brisk nap]

This article (http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651224p1.html) (link borrowed from the AGS Forums (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forum/)) speculates along much the same lines.

The whole hands-on approach of moving the remote around and grabbing items could help turn mundane tasks into fun ones. Players could examine a room and move around a virtual hand, grabbing items and manipulating objects. If you don't see the attraction here, go grab Wario Ware Twisted and try out some of the interactive toys. There's just something addictive about manipulating objects while the control unit's rumble feedback tricks your brain into feeling texture or resistance. Whether it's examining a dead body on the floor to figure out a mystery, solving 7th Guest-style sliding puzzles or rummaging through an open desk, the pointer may just be able to breathe new life into one of yesterday's most imaginative genres.I have to say, this controller has got me very excited. All kinds of cool possibilities...

[fov]

There's already a honkin' big Revolution controller thread here (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=10398). :)

[After a brisk nap]

I know, but this thread is about the controller as it pertains to adventure games. :P

[Intrepid Homoludens]

:) In that case I'll make the thread title more informative.

Anyway, I think it depends on how Nintendo will work with adventure game developers. The '3D point-&-click' controller does seem perfect for that kind of gaming, but it also offers possibilities for so many different ways to experience any game, and adventure game in particular, beyond just pointing a clicking.

[artwking4]

I know, but this thread is about the controller as it pertains to adventure games. :P

Excellent.

Does anyone know if Nintendo will offer a pulley attachment peripheral for the controller? And also a rubber chicken skin?

[Karmillo]

Excellent.

Does anyone know if Nintendo will offer a pulley attachment peripheral for the controller? And also a rubber chicken skin?

*Vweeeeeeeeee!* :P

I think it would be good if it was a 1st person point and click, you would move with the analog and point the controller at the object/person and then either press one of the buttons with different actions for each or hold down the trigger button and scroll through the actions with the D-Pad.

I really like what nintendo are trying to do with this, were definetly in for a big change in gaming if they go through with this, especialy adventure games :D

[RLacey]

Does anyone else see the potential irony in creating a brand new, innovative controller, and using it to make point-and-click adventure games? ;)

Not that I would mind one at all...

[Kolorabi]

Will be perfect for point and click adventures....
A mouse would be err, perfecter. :)

[TheTwelve]

I'd just like to throw out one idea. This controller and a game like Fahrenheit seem like a match made in heaven.

For all of those interactions that required holding the mouse button down and moving the mouse in a direction, you do that with the press of the "A" button and a wave of the hand. It's perfect. Instead of wiggling your mouse to mop the blood off the floor, you're actually moving that mop!

Plus, you could use the wave of your remote to control the (currently terribly implemented) camera while moving your character with the attached analog stick.

Of course the controller opens itself up to any number of other ways to help you feel like you're really interacting with the environment as well.

[Kolorabi]

Hmm, can you imagine how much more complicated it will be to do these gestures in 3D? To open a door by making an "open door" or "mop floor"-movement with the controller, that the game will understand?

Have you played Darwinia, Black & White or Arx Fatalis? These games also have "gesture"-based controls for certain gameplay elements, and it can be difficult enough to get the game to recognize your gestures even when the only thing you have to worry about is a 2D surface (your mousemat)...

As for a pure point & click interface (the subject of this thread), where you'd be using the controller simply as a pointing device (treating the image on the screen as a 2D surface), well, that's nothing new really and using a mouse for the same task is much more efficient, comfortable and accurate.

[Marek]

As for a pure point & click interface (the subject of this thread), where you'd be using the controller simply as a pointing device (treating the image on the screen as a 2D surface), well, that's nothing new really and using a mouse for the same task is much more efficient, comfortable and accurate.I'm sorry, but ... ARGHhhhhhhhHHHH.

You just can't use a mouse with a console. The remote controller is perfect for point-and-click -- as good as (and potentially better) than a mouse. Please get your head out of the sand. :shifty:

The Revolution is a perfect fit for point-and-click adventures, even moreso than the DS. It can provide a near identical experience to the PC, except where you sit on the couch instead of at a computer desk. You can play the game with one hand and drink coffee / pet your cat / hold a walkthrough using the other. With the DS (as totally awesome as it is for adventure games), you still need to hold the device.

Anyone who can't see the potential should be ashamed to call himself an adventure gamer.

And note that this isn't even an issue of "innovation". It's hard to think of something more conservative or obvious than copying the genre's age old point-and-click principles to another platform. It could be awesome a thousand times.

[Kolorabi]

I'm sorry, but ... ARGHhhhhhhhHHHH.

You just can't use a mouse with a console. The remote controller is perfect for point-and-click -- as good as (and potentially better) than a mouse. Please get your head out of the sand. :shifty:

Why can't you use a mouse with a console?

Have you tried pointing a remote control at a TV-screen, as you would in a P&C adventure, for a long-ish period of time? Try it, try to pretend you're playing a P&C adventure, and see how long it takes you to realize that this just isn't a comfortable thing to be doing for long periods of time.

Potentially better? Right? How? It's requires more effort, it's less accurate, it's less comfortable,... how is it better?

Oh yeah, Nintendo made it. That obviously made it better (sorry, I'm not really serious, but I'm a bit annoyed by the idea that Nintendo can do no wrong, which is so common among the new hardcore). :frusty:
The Revolution is a perfect fit for point-and-click adventures, even moreso than the DS. It can provide a near identical experience to the PC, except where you sit on the couch instead of at a computer desk. You can play the game with one hand and drink coffee / pet your cat / hold a walkthrough using the other. With the DS (as totally awesome as it is for adventure games), you still need to hold the device.Sure, the Revolution is better suited to point and click adventure games than the rivals. But perfect? Playing an adventure with a complex lightgun instead of a mouse? Come on.

And no. Before you jump on me for not understanding what the Revolution controller is, I am perfectly aware of the fact that it's completely different from a lightgun. But within the boundaries of the point & click system (where we treat the viewing area as a 2D surface), it works like a complex lightgun.
Anyone who can't see the potential should be ashamed to call himself an adventure gamer.
Sure, Marek. :z

[After a brisk nap]

I can lie in my sofa, have the remote control in my hand, rest my hand on my thigh, and point at the television with minimal flicks of my wrist. I don't see how anything could be more comfortable.

It's not something I get really excited about, though. It's not really using any of the powerful features of this new controller. Something like the action mimicking in Fahrenheit would be far more interesting to me.

As for the difficulty of gesturing in 3D, I don't think that will be a problem at all. Anyone who uses, say, Firefox is already comfortable with gesture-based interaction, and 3D will just make it more unambiguous. In the Fahrenheit floor-mopping example, how difficult is it to tell the difference between mopping (pushing the controller forwards and backwards repeatedly) and putting away the mop (pulling it to the side, possibly tilting it over)? Remember that you not only have position in 3D space, you also have tilt, which gives you a much better idea of the motion the player is making.

[CrimsonBlue]

I envision Normality-like games on the Revolution.

[bigjko]

(sorry, I'm not really serious, but I'm a bit annoyed by the idea that Nintendo can do no wrong, which is so common among the new hardcore)

Wait, wh.. What?! I don't know where you hang out, or anything, but all I've been seeing the past few years is Nintendo bashing.

And I don't see how it's less accurate, you'd still be able to have your beloved cursor on the screen. It's not like you have to have to reach out your hand, and wave it around like a fairy to make the controller work. You can just rest it on the sofa, or your legs, or whatever you fancy.

I'd much rather see a new way to control an adventure with Rev's controller, ala Nintendo's Another Code.

[Marek]

Kolorabi, I'm not being a Nintendo cheerleader. They have done a lot of things right, and a lot of things wrong. I think you'll find, as bigjko says, that Nintendo has actually been approached with extreme skepticism and cynicism from gamers pretty much ever since N64. According to the hardcore gaming populace, Nintendo can do no right.

There have been reports of people playing Metroid Prime with this new controller and saying that it's extremely easy to point and shoot with great accuracy. (Some are even saying it's better than using keyboard and mouselook, but we won't know until later if that's hyperbole or real.) You seem to be assuming that the controller will be clunky and useless. Do you really think they'd release a product with an inaccurate and heavy control method? The controller is the most essential element of the whole console, so why do you think it will be an ergonomic nightmare?

Use your imagination. Adventure games are perfectly suited for playing on your TV, in the living room, much moreso than on a PC at a desk. The only thing that's kept them from going there is the lack of a suitable input device. It's here now, and I would love to see adventure games use it. Nintendo is partially aiming at the casual market, and there's nothing more casual than an adventure game in which you can't die. It could become the genre's greatest opportunity since its collapse halfway through the 90ies, though whether that stays a pipe dream or not depends on a lot of circumstances. (Here's hoping Nintendo will fix its problems with allocating release slots.)

By the way, asking why you can't use a mouse with a console is ridiculous. Are you supposed to put a mousemat on your lap? Try it and see how long it takes you to realize that this just isn't a comfortable thing to be doing for long periods of time. :P

[pleto4_ryan]

*imagines sitting on the couch and deciding what dialogue to choose...

[Kolorabi]

Kolorabi, I'm not being a Nintendo cheerleader. They have done a lot of things right, and a lot of things wrong. I think you'll find, as bigjko says, that Nintendo has actually been approached with extreme skepticism and cynicism from gamers pretty much ever since N64. According to the hardcore gaming populace, Nintendo can do no right.
That's not exactly the impression I've got, but let's let this one drop.

There have been reports of people playing Metroid Prime with this new controller and saying that it's extremely easy to point and shoot with great accuracy. (Some are even saying it's better than using keyboard and mouselook, but we won't know until later if that's hyperbole or real.) You seem to be assuming that the controller will be clunky and useless. Do you really think they'd release a product with an inaccurate and heavy control method? The controller is the most essential element of the whole console, so why do you think it will be an ergonomic nightmare?
I'm not assuming anything, and in another thread I said I thought the controller looked very interesting (however, I do think it's going to be more work to use it than it is to use "normal" controllers - that's pretty obvious, really - just look at the promotional video).
Use your imagination. Adventure games are perfectly suited for playing on your TV, in the living room, much moreso than on a PC at a desk. The only thing that's kept them from going there is the lack of a suitable input device. It's here now, and I would love to see adventure games use it. Nintendo is partially aiming at the casual market, and there's nothing more casual than an adventure game in which you can't die. It could become the genre's greatest opportunity since its collapse halfway through the 90ies, though whether that stays a pipe dream or not depends on a lot of circumstances. (Here's hoping Nintendo will fix its problems with allocating release slots.)There's nothing here I disagree with, I just think a mouse is a better input device for point and click adventure games. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, but every other pointing device I've seen have been less accurate than a mouse (not because of technical limitations, but because of the way they're used) and required more effort to use as well.

But yes, we could really benefit from having a next generation console with a control system so well suited for point & click adventures. All I'm saying is that I doubt it will be a better experience with that controller than it is with a mouse, as the mouse is really the perfect tool for pointing and clicking.
By the way, asking why you can't use a mouse with a console is ridiculous. Are you supposed to put a mousemat on your lap? Try it and see how long it takes you to realize that this just isn't a comfortable thing to be doing for long periods of time. :P
Hmm, the thing is, I am allready using a mouse in front of my TV. First of all, I've got a gizmo that allows me to use a normal mouse with my PS2 (for FPS-games and so on), and secondly, my Amiga is set up next to my PS2, and most of our favourite games use mouse input (The Settlers, et.c.) And that works quite well.

[oerhört]

Well, if the technology works as well as they say it does, then it can be used as a conventional mouse as well.

But yes, of course it's possible to make it work badly with a point and click game. That doesn't necessarily mean it can't work well, if only the designers target the problems that may make it tiring to use.

As long as the reports are accurate, this is a software problem, not a hardware one.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I'm not assuming anything, and in another thread I said I thought the controller looked very interesting (however, I do think it's going to be more work to use it than it is to use "normal" controllers - that's pretty obvious, really - just look at the promotional video).

There's nothing here I disagree with, I just think a mouse is a better input device for point and click adventure games. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, but every other pointing device I've seen have been less accurate than a mouse (not because of technical limitations, but because of the way they're used) and required more effort to use as well.

But yes, we could really benefit from having a next generation console with a control system so well suited for point & click adventures. All I'm saying is that I doubt it will be a better experience with that controller than it is with a mouse, as the mouse is really the perfect tool for pointing and clicking.

Hmm, the thing is, I am allready using a mouse in front of my TV. First of all, I've got a gizmo that allows me to use a normal mouse with my PS2 (for FPS-games and so on), and secondly, my Amiga is set up next to my PS2, and most of our favourite games use mouse input (The Settlers, et.c.) And that works quite well.

I think you're ultimately thinking that the mouse is the best way interact because it's what you've always been used to. That doesn't necessarily mean another way, possible a more comfortable and efficient way, won't work. It just means you might have a new learning curve to surmount before it becomes intuitive and natural - as intuitive and natural as it was using the mouse (which itself had a learning curve the very first time you ever used it).

[CrimsonBlue]

Think about it. First person adventure like Normality. Use the nunchuk analogue-peripheral with the remote.

Move forward and backwards and strafe with the analogue stick. Use the remote to look around, like with a mouse. One button brings forth a curson on screen. When this is pressed (hold or toggle can be chosen in options) the analogue works as a normal look-around. Point the cursor on object. Push action button (picks up the item). When you need to use the item, you can flip through the different items in your inventory by using the directional cross on the remote left and right. Pushing up brings up your entire inventory along with a cursor that lets you pick up an item and combine with something else. Pushing the directional buttons down will let you leave the inventory - with or without an item in your hand.

I would most definately buy a game like this.

[MoriartyL]

I can't wait to play a game like Myst Revelation on the Revolution. Of course, chances are that won't happen, but I'm going to ignore that for the moment so that I can daydream happily. Let's say we were porting Myst IV. The motion sensor would control the camera. The A button would function exactly like the left mouse button, but you'd finally be able to actually pull things open, spin things around, etc. The X and Y buttons (on the bottom of the controller) would take out the camera and activate the amulet, Select would open the journal, and Start would open the menu. Not too hard to port, and it would work like a charm. Myst V would work just as well- just keep all these controls and assign movement to the D-pad. These control schemes would be far more natural and transparent than using a mouse and keyboard.

As for adventures: The solution you are proposing would be no better and no worse than mouse control. That's a testament to this controller's flexibility- what other type of control can simulate all other types?

[Naveed]

I can't wait for ScummVM on Revolution, will be interesting :D

[Kolorabi]

Well, if the technology works as well as they say it does, then it can be used as a conventional mouse as well.
Hehe, nice theory. :)
I think you're ultimately thinking that the mouse is the best way interact because it's what you've always been used to.
No, not really. I'm considering the mechanics of a point & click game and thinking about how that will work with a control device such as this. Assuming it's not too tiresome to use, it could work well, compared to traditional console controllers. But I'm pretty sure it won't work as well as a mouse.

[SoccerDude28]

Though I see the benefit of the remote like controller over a gamepad (whether it is better than a mouse for point and click games is debatable), I don't think it's going to cause a massive revolution of adventure games on consoles. At the end of the day, it's just a controller, and the reason why adventure games are popular on the PC's goes far beyond the control mechanism of such games. There is a long history of adventure gaming on the PC, and most of the adventure market grew up playing these games on the PC's. The nintendo generation is not used to these games, and as a different audience might not like these type of games.

Remember the FPS'es. They feel very clunky with a controller, and they play much better with a mouse and keyboard, but that didn't stop them from becoming very popular with the console audience. Not because the consoles provided a perfect controller for these types of games, but because the audience of consoles is more interested in such games as opposed to something like a historical war strategy game.

[bigjko]

The nintendo generation is not used to these games, and as a different audience might not like these type of games.


Well, Nintendo certainly thought they'd be interested in them. We're yet to see if Another Code does well, though.

[Tanukitsune]

Kolorabi, I'm not being a Nintendo cheerleader. They have done a lot of things right, and a lot of things wrong. I think you'll find, as bigjko says, that Nintendo has actually been approached with extreme skepticism and cynicism from gamers pretty much ever since N64. According to the hardcore gaming populace, Nintendo can do no right.

He's right, I consider myself a faithful Nintendo fan, yet even I lost faith in them back in the N64 era...

I must say this controller would be perfect for 1st person adventures, but I'm not so sure about 3rd person ones...

Let's just hope they do more than make more than mere Myst clones and innovate a little as well... :shifty:

[MoriartyL]

Let's just hope they do more than make more than mere Myst clones and innovate a little as well... :shifty:
Bah! I say, bring on the Myst clones! Right now, I'm just looking for hope that there will be any exploration games at all. Any hope? Please? The only thing that's been confirmed is Metroid Prime 3, and for that alone I will be getting a Revolution. But that's supposedly the last game in the series- I'm afraid Nintendo will turn the series into a first-person shooter after that. Once there is confirmation that there will, in fact, be exploration games (of the action, puzzle, or -please god- pure varieties), I'll start hoping that they'll be any good, necessitating innovation.

The two existing foundations for exploration gameplay are a good start, but there is much progress to be made. These formats are too rigid and limiting. In order to move forward, efforts must be made to expand the art form in the areas of dynamic worlds, representation of societies, and methods of exploration.