Fahrenheit Sex Scene

[Legolas813]

Ok, I was browsing the official Indigo boards and I came across these screenshots of the sex scene. So pretty much this is part of what we are missing here in the U.S. This is just the sex scene; none of the frontal nudity present in the game is shown here.

Warning: May not be safe for work or appropriate for minors.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2792/clipboard57yr.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4041/fahrenheitmakelovenotwar52iy.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3702/fahrenheitmakelovenotwar65ss.jpg

Kudos to "paso" at the official Indigo boards (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492796) for posting the screenshots.

[MaryScots]

How shocking... :rolleyes:

Get the Gamestar ( a german PC Gamer Magazin) there are some scene where you actually see him having sex and you have to use the Gamepad/Mouse to direct him into the right side.

Obviously our hero is a youngster if it came to things like this

I find it quite amusing to once help a guy make love in a game instead of helping him to kill people. :D

Maybe I should get Fahrenheit after all?! :)

[Phantom]

How shocking... :rolleyes:
Maybe I should get Fahrenheit after all?! :)

Of course you should, if only to support the game that could revive the genre.

[squarejawhero]

That bed must be really good for your back.

[bigjko]

..the game that could revive the genre.

God, I hate that sentence.

[squarejawhero]

It's the game that could revive your pants.

[Captain Blondebeard]

I saw more in Team America. :D

[MaryScots]

Of course you should, if only to support the game that could revive the genre.

That would be Dreamfall, then. :shifty: ;)

That bed must be really good for your back.

Oh yes, that's the brandnew Hoverbed™. Didn't you notice how they are floating slightly above the sheets. :D

[Fop]

It seems rather pointless, even gratuitous. I just don't see why a sex scene should be an in-out-in-out gameplay element rather than a short cut-scene, if even that.

[Phantom]

That would be Dreamfall, then. :shifty: ;)


I'd love it if it would be, and I sincerely hope so because they deserve it. But for now my money's on Fahrenheit =).

[insane_cobra]

It seems rather pointless, even gratuitous. I just don't see why a sex scene should be an in-out-in-out gameplay element rather than a short cut-scene, if even that. Hey, if you can mop the floor, what's wrong with dipping the mop? :D

God, I hate using these fugly smileys..

[Karmillo]

Hahaha! I heard about this sex scene but i had no idea it was part of the gamplay! Wooo Left Right Left Right! XD

This games gonna be great :devil:

[squarejawhero]

But does she complain if you get it wrong? And who are you controlling? Perhaps you're the female!

So many questions... so many questions... :D

[Karmillo]

Just aswell this game doesnt have an inventory :devil:

[squarejawhero]

Let's hope it at least lets the main character slip on a rubber first.

:crazy:

Hopefully we won't have to do that part.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Is that it? That's what the sex scenes are all about? I dunno what I was hoping for, but that's lame! Might as well just get the censord N/A version, then. :shifty:

[Karmillo]

Is that it? That's what the sex scenes are all about? I dunno what I was hoping for, but that's lame! Might as well just get the censord N/A version, then. :shifty:

Then you shall miss out on those extra scenes of thumb wiggling and finger tapping :P
(Depending on wether you get the pc or console version)

[Richard]

Then you shall miss out on those extra scenes of thumb wiggling and finger tapping :P
(Depending on wether you get the pc or console version)

That's not the only sex scene. The other one comes pretty much at the end, and is rather more graphic. Non-interactive too, so you don't need to worry about performance anxiety - only the absolute idiocy of the story by that point. There's also a nudity thing you can unlock, in which one of the characters does a dance that ends up as a striptease, and a scene of David Cage dancing around next to a not-particularly-clad Carla.

Which is certainly a suitable way of finishing it off, given what he does with her as a character in the final, nail-tearingly patronising ending run. I can't remember the last time that a game annoyed me so much.

[jannar85]

That's cool! :)

[squarejawhero]

That's not the only sex scene. The other one comes pretty much at the end, and is rather more graphic. Non-interactive too, so you don't need to worry about performance anxiety - only the absolute idiocy of the story by that point. There's also a nudity thing you can unlock, in which one of the characters does a dance that ends up as a striptease, and a scene of David Cage dancing around next to a not-particularly-clad Carla.

Which is certainly a suitable way of finishing it off, given what he does with her as a character in the final, nail-tearingly patronising ending run. I can't remember the last time that a game annoyed me so much.

John still gave it mid-80's though. :P Heheh... c'mon, be honest, what would you have scored it as?

(I'm still not entirely drawn to the fact the "director" puts himself in the film... at least Hitchcock had the decency to make brief cameos)

[Richard]

John still gave it mid-80's though. :P Heheh... c'mon, be honest, what would you have scored it as?

(I'm still not entirely drawn to the fact the "director" puts himself in the film... at least Hitchcock had the decency to make brief cameos)

You'll find out in this month's PC Format ;-P

Although, as a quick capsule, I'd say that the opening bits are superb...but it goes downhill pretty damn fast after a few hours. It's beautifully stylish, but the story's no Gabriel Knight, or even Angel Heart.

(The cops in particular are useless - a great idea, but sadly wasted opportunity to expand on the story, rather than largely make you find out stuff that you already know from being Kane.)

The story just isn't as strong as the opening wants you to believe - it quickly quickly starts hitting roadblocks, even the apparent choices start getting stripped away, and it all goes completely off the rails by the end, in a neverending parade of increasingly gratuitious Track and Field and Dragon's Lair bits, and story progressions that make the entire cast seem like utter morons.

Carla especially is a strong contender for Worst Cop In The World, and I'm not just talking about the way you have to control her breathing when she has attacks of claustrophobia in the police basement, or keeping her mind - her trained homicide detective mind - on the job during an autopsy. And then the ending: NNNGGGGH! Suffice it to say that Sophia, Grace and April would have deployed The Fist of Doom had anyone treated them like this in their games.

(Oh, and Cage isn't in it much - just the tutorial, and a couple of unlockable scenes)

But despite that, it's still the most successful adventure game for a long, long time when it comes to sucking me into the action, as well as a /lot/ of guys in the office who have no interest in the genre. I really hope it does well enough to warrant at least a spiritual sequel that can go the distance that bit better.

Also: No goddamned Sokoban puzzles. Not one. Hurrah!

(This space intentionally left blank. Oh, damn)

[samIamsad]

(I'm still not entirely drawn to the fact the "director" puts himself in the film... at least Hitchcock had the decency to make brief cameos)


That's the result of yet another publisher interfering.

[Fien]

Ok, I was browsing the official Indigo boards and I came across these screenshots of the sex scene.

3D puppets having sex! What's the world coming to. :devil:
I'm going to have loads of fun with this game...

The best of the lot:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5346/fahrenheitmakelovenotwar26rl.jpg

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Hey Captain! Keep your Hook off me! :pan:

[Kwiksnax]

God, I hate that sentence.
My thoughts exactly! :)

[Intrepid Homoludens]

That's not the only sex scene. The other one comes pretty much at the end, and is rather more graphic. Non-interactive too, so you don't need to worry about performance anxiety - only the absolute idiocy of the story by that point. There's also a nudity thing you can unlock, in which one of the characters does a dance that ends up as a striptease, and a scene of David Cage dancing around next to a not-particularly-clad Carla.

Which is certainly a suitable way of finishing it off, given what he does with her as a character in the final, nail-tearingly patronising ending run. I can't remember the last time that a game annoyed me so much.

It doesn't seem point to any story enhancement or player efficacy of plot - no meaningfulness. I mean, if what you described is what there is that got edited, then it doesn't matter to me which version I get.

[ikari]

I found those sex scenes in games so boring/stupid..
I don't think you guys are missing much...

[Richard]

It doesn't seem point to any story enhancement or player efficacy of plot - no meaningfulness. I mean, if what you described is what there is that got edited, then it doesn't matter to me which version I get.

One of them is relevant to the plot - the one pictured in this thread is just an optional fling with an ex-girlfriend - but nothing that couldn't have been done with a tasteful fade out. It's a very poorly judged romance bit in general, to be honest... The other one...

Ahem.

BIG-ASS SPOILER WARNING OF MOMENT NEAR THE END OF THE GAME

Carla and Lucas teaming up, despite the fact that in my game, they'd never even met until Lucas spontaneously calls her for a meeting, and then the two of them falling in love instantly because...uh...the game needs to get Carla pregnant, and that's her sole contribution to most of the endings, except for getting kidnapped or otherwise sidelined.

(I forgot - there's also a few other bits of nudity - a shower scene and a joke sequence. Nothing worth writing home about)

[squarejawhero]

Sounds like an article about nudity and sex in games is brewing - its relevance and importance. Cheers for sharing your views, man. I look forward to it in trepidation, but it's still got to be better than some of the other game plots out there of late.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Crap, I peeked at that spoiler.

:pan:
:crazy:
Richard

I'm wondering if that scene you spoiled me with couldn't be done in any other way.

[Richard]

Crap, I peeked at that spoiler.

:pan:
:crazy:
Richard

I'm wondering if that scene you spoiled me with couldn't be done in any other way.

Ahem.

:pan:
:crazy:
Trep

Man, I put the spoiler tag in there for a REASON ;-)

(Although actually, it's really not as bad a spoiler as it might look from that - I still wouldn't peek if you haven't played the game, but it's actually pretty damn predictable, and definitely from the La-La-Land part of the story rather than what I like to think of as The Good Bit. And yes, it could have been done with a tasteful fade to black, rather than slathering the screen with vaseline)

Also:

For Christ's sake, are you mad? Spoiler tag! Stop being silly!

But you'll find that out in due course.

[Ninth]

Wow, I was almost convinced to buy the game, but after reading this thread I'm a bit perplexed. :crazy:

[Richard]

Sounds like an article about nudity and sex in games is brewing - its relevance and importance

Self-linkage. Sorry. Only a blog-post, hammered out in a fit of annoyance after having to review 7 Sins, but you might find it interesting anyway.

http://www.richardcobbett.co.uk/codex/journal/filingcabinet/one_deadly_sin/

To clarify: I have exactly no problem with sex or nudity in games, as long as there's a reason beyond the designer wanting to draw naked ladies and not caring how they get shoe-horned into the game. But there has to be a reason for it, just like anything else that might get added. I don't really care if it's dramatic, romantic or just plain comedy - as long as it's there somewhere. Leisure Suit Larry 7? Great adventure game. Playboy: The Mansion? Mediocre strategy game at best, but all the adult stuff fits the context. Prince of Persia: Warrior Within? Grow the hell up, you immature, bondage-obsessed babies.

And so on.

[squarejawhero]

You'll find a lot of nodding heads here re Warrior Within, that's for sure. I'll take a look at that link later.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to lube up my monitor.

[Richard]

Wow, I was almost convinced to buy the game, but after reading this thread I'm a bit perplexed. :crazy:

The first four hours are some of the most gripping adventure you will ever play. It deserves your money, and your time, more than anything released for the last few years . It is, to be blunt, adventure gaming's Max Payne (only without the script written in wax crayon - at least until the end). Gloriously stylish, superbly acted and rendered, and genuinely absorbing...it immediately hooks you by any orifice you care to mention.

However, it can't keep that momentum going all the way to the end, sidelining the dark atmosphere and tension for increasingly gratuitious supernatural elements that frankly pull the quality down lower and lower the further you get into it. It took me two evenings of the most casual play to finish, and while I was hopping with enthusiasm throughout the first, I spent much of the second just ploughing through, waiting for it to either respark that, or just get to the point.

I just wish they'd dropped the supernatural stuff almost entirely and focused on the real-world atmosphere - the chases, the tension, the fear of being thrust into an extraordinary situation and just having to react... Those bits work fine - even brilliantly on occasion, as you'll find out - but the wider stuff...not so much. The overall plot's okay as these things go, but a lot of it is very, very silly indeed, and nowhere near long enough to last the whole game.

(And the filler can be quite literally painful. My fingers really, really hurt after some of the keyboard pounding bits - and while that's fine for the exciting, big set-piece moments, a lot of the time it's patently obvious that you're playing through filler rather than uncovering something interesting)

Even so, it's a game every adventure gamer should buy, just for those hours where it's genuinely brilliant...but don't make the mistake of thinking it's all like the demo. That really is as free as the game gets, and it's not long before your main choice is which order to do scenes, rather than how to approach them. For most of the rest, your interaction is playing DDR or Track and Field on demand and hitting the necessary hotspots, with a few choices thrown in for good measure. The sense of fun and experimentation quickly gets thrown out of the window, and at times it even forces you to be stupid to progress the plot, not because you're working out how to juggle the world, but because This Is The Sequence As Written.

Spoiler (a scene, not part of the plot, so it's safe enough... but I'm being careful):

For instance, there's a scene with Carla in her apartment. She's just got out of the shower and is wandering around in her knickers when the front-door bell rings. You try answering the door without getting changed, just to see the reaction, but the game won't let you - so you go get changed, let the guy in, and then all the doors are removed as trigger points so that you can't wander into the bedroom, dress down again, and see the reaction when you turn up distinctly out of uniform.

It's little things like that, where the developers have spotted weird, fun things that you might want to do, just to see what happens, but have opted to lock you out of doing them instead of providing a reaction. As opposed to the cafe at the start, where just about every last button-click is meticulously scripted, and you have the complete run of the place.

In fairness, if this kind of thing appeared in most adventure games, you'd never notice - when Fahrenheit starts slipping, it's just much more evident because both the opening and the potential are so goddamned good.

[Ninth]

(...)
Ok, thanks.
Hm... I guess that depends on the price and on whether I buy Guild Wars instead, then. :P

[MDMaster]

However, it can't keep that momentum going all the way to the end, sidelining the dark atmosphere and tension for increasingly gratuitious supernatural elements that frankly pull the quality down lower and lower the further you get into it.

That's what I was afraid of and what leaves me a bit disappointed about most plots in games nowadays. I would love if they would just get more REAL, instead of always bringing in the supernatural and horrible monsters, for no reasons at all, if not to make the plot easier for people to understand.
Like Sanitarium for example, the supernatural bits were downright useless and reading the postmortem makes you wish they'd just work more on the plot.
Or the 'why did I do this? I can't remember'... cause you were possesed by a supernatural entity, what else could it be?

[Richard]

That's what I was afraid of and what leaves me a bit disappointed about most plots in games nowadays. I would love if they would just get more REAL, instead of always bringing in the supernatural and horrible monsters, for no reasons at all, if not to make the plot easier for people to understand.

I agree. Even when the core is going to be something dark and supernatural, there are ways to do it. Gabriel Knight absolutely nailed it - for all the stuff that happened before the story, and all the mystical elements in the background, the story itself was resolutely human level. Malia. Wolfgang. Mosely, and the bit in the graveyard - hell, even Tetelo's background...it understood that it's the characters and their reactions that make it interesting, not necessarily the specific foozles the story winds up throwing in your face. Or to put it another way, the story is Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, not Gabriel Knight vs. The Evil Voodoo Cult of Doom.

(Especially GK2. Who remembers the hilariously bad werewolf graphics over, say, Gabriel's developing relationship with von Glower?)

The annoying thing is that Fahrenheit does know this, and from the evidence, knows it better than almost any adventure developer out there. The opening bits, it's bang-on. The conversations, the paranoia, the fear, the relationships...they're all so good.

But then the plot starts going to Cloud Cuckoo Land and throwing in everything but the kitchen sink, and that connection just dissolves into madness - and not the good kind. Note to designer: if a key moment of your story could be transplanted almost wholesale into an episode of Scooby Doo, something has gone south with your psychological horror game.

Like Sanitarium for example, the supernatural bits were downright useless

Well, in Sanitarium

it was all a dream anyway...

[Ninth]

But then the plot starts going to Cloud Cuckoo Land and throwing in everything but the kitchen sink, and that connection just dissolves into madness - and not the good kind. Note to designer: if a key moment of your story could be transplanted almost wholesale into an episode of Scooby Doo, something has gone south with your psychological horror game.
Uh, suddenly I'm skeptic again... :crazy: :P

[Melanie68]

Uh, suddenly I'm skeptic again... :crazy: :P

It's bound to go on sale at some point. That's always my strategy when I'm hesitent to buy something (the woman's shopping perspective :) )

[Ninth]

It's bound to go on sale at some point. That's always my strategy when I'm hesitent to buy something (the woman's shopping perspective :) )
To go on sale? That this mean: to get cheaper?

On a side note, Myst 4 is sold at 15€ here. Seems to me like it didn't work well, to be sold that cheap less than a year after its release.

[squarejawhero]

It's not to do with selling, it's to do with turnaround. You'll find successful games at that much too - often due to overproduction. It's not a way of being able to construe the success of a title.

[Fairygdmther]

Yes, but it also could be because Myst V is on its way out, and they don't really want them competing.

Lynsie

[Melanie68]

To go on sale? That this mean: to get cheaper?

Yes.

On a side note, Myst 4 is sold at 15€ here. Seems to me like it didn't work well, to be sold that cheap less than a year after its release.

Is that little sign thingamajiggy after the 15 a euro?
It seems that you see games at CompUSA in the boxes for $20-40 and you'll see some of the same games on the cheapo rack for $10 (jewel cases). When they go down in price that fast, you wonder if they are making money. I'm not sure if UbiSoft or any of the other game companies are publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange. If so, you could look up their sales figures.

[squarejawhero]

Yes, but it also could be because Myst V is on its way out, and they don't really want them competing.

Lynsie

Plus the game is a year old now, and keeping it cheaper gains interest.

[Ninth]

Yes.



Is that little sign thingamajiggy after the 15 a euro?
It seems that you see games at CompUSA in the boxes for $20-40 and you'll see some of the same games on the cheapo rack for $10 (jewel cases). When they go down in price that fast, you wonder if they are making money. I'm not sure if UbiSoft or any of the other game companies are publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange. If so, you could look up their sales figures.
Yep, € = euro.

[Ninth]

It's not to do with selling, it's to do with turnaround. You'll find successful games at that much too - often due to overproduction. It's not a way of being able to construe the success of a title.
Well, if there's been an overproduction, it seems to me that they haven't been able to sell as much units as they expected... so it depends on whether by "selling well" one means "compared to the other games" or "compared to what it could have been".

[squarejawhero]

Agh, why do you insist on arguing with me today? All games are overproduced, because it's cheap to do, like DVD's. Just because there's still tons of Half Life 2 or Myst IV on the shelves doesn't mean they bombed. If you make a game cheaper a year later, then you sell even more of it - it makes sense to continue to flog the product at a cheaper price. It's perfectly normal practice for DVD's, CD's and games and Myst IV is coming out on budget on the 23rd.

Hell, companies like Ubi allow a game to be cheap for one month and hike it up the next by allowing retailers like Virgin cheap stock. I bought Silent Hunter 3 for a tenner a couple of months back, returned the next week to buy a copy for my dad to see it back a £30 in the same store. Why? They ran out of the sale stock. Doesn't mean it suddenly became successful in that space of time.

Pull out some figures, please, then we're on the same level. You can't tell if Myst IV did badly or well based on the fact it got cheaper a year later. HL2 was a massive hit and sells for as low as £15 here now, new.

[Ninth]

Agh, why do you insist on arguing with me today? All games are overproduced, because it's cheap to do, like DVD's. Just because there's still tons of Half Life 2 or Myst IV on the shelves doesn't mean they bombed. If you make a game cheaper a year later, then you sell even more of it - it makes sense to continue to flog the product at a cheaper price. It's perfectly normal practice for DVD's, CD's and games and Myst IV is coming out on budget on the 23rd.

Hell, companies like Ubi allow a game to be cheap for one month and hike it up the next by allowing retailers like Virgin cheap stock. I bought Silent Hunter 3 for a tenner a couple of months back, returned the next week to buy a copy for my dad to see it back a £30 in the same store. Why? They ran out of the sale stock. Doesn't mean it suddenly became successful in that space of time.

Pull out some figures, please, then we're on the same level. You can't tell if Myst IV did badly or well based on the fact it got cheaper a year later. HL2 was a massive hit and sells for as low as £15 here now, new.
Ok, here are some figures.
I bought Myst IV less than 1 year ago for 50€ or so, and now it cost only 15€.
That's the 1st time I've noticed such a drop, and therefore I'm surprised.

In other words: I'm not arguing. I was wondering why the price dropped, and found your explanation not completely satisfying (notice the "not completely", which means that it was also mostly satisfying). Therefore I tried pointing out something that perplexed me with your theory.
There's no need to get all worked up, man.

[squarejawhero]

I thought YOU were getting worked up about it. :pan:

[Ninth]

I thought YOU were getting worked up about it. :pan:
Well... no.

The only thing that get me worked up is the way these games are over-priced, and then almost given.
3.9€ for Atlantis III?
1€ for Zork GI?
50€ for Martin Mystere?
I hate that, seeing some masterpieces (Zork, for example) priced 1/50 of some very average recent games...

Anyways...

[Fop]

Even in the demo that hobo sees you even if he absolutely shouldn't have.

[squarejawhero]

Well... no.

The only thing that get me worked up is the way these games are over-priced, and then almost given.
3.9€ for Atlantis III?
1€ for Zork GI?
50€ for Martin Mystere?
I hate that, seeing some masterpieces (Zork, for example) priced 1/50 of some very average recent games...

Anyways...

Yeah, the Euro is incredibly unbalanced. I remember when they changed the Lira to the Euro Italian software and other electronic goods went through the roof, as if they took the UK pricing and directly converted it. :shifty: B*stards.

Anyhow, old games are always going to cost less. Like old CD's or DVD's, unless they're particularly rare.

[fov]

I never thought there would come a day that I'd be asking people to get back on topic and talk about sex. :D

Err... anyway, I haven't had a chance to watch these, and probably shouldn't at work. I'm curious to see them though. Might help me decide if I really want to go to the trouble of exporting the UK version. I was planning to, but I'm about to get a $50 gift card for Amazon that I could use to buy the US version...

[oerhört]

I believe Richard is overexaggerating it all a bit, though. Yes, there are bits here that should have been changed or left out, and yes, the final resolution is not as tight as, say, The Beast Within. It shines through that neiter David Cage or Quantic Dream are actual authors or screenwriters..

But at the same time, I find the game deserves to be respected very much just for being, at least the way I see it, the best told adventure since Grim Fandango. I, for one, did not feel it lost interest towards the end. To the contrary, actually: I felt the game kept throwing new twists at me like very few other games I've tried have managed, keeping me on the seat and feeding me with more questions and answers all the time.

It's no Matrix or GK2 in terms of a perfect resolution to the story, then, but to be negative towards Fahrenheit i feel is somehow counter-productive. It's the most promising piece of interactive storytelling in a long time, in my opinion, and a definite 8/10.

[Richard]

I felt the game kept throwing new twists at me like very few other games I've tried have managed, keeping me on the seat and feeding me with more questions and answers all the time.

Yes, it kept throwing in new twists. Trouble was, most of them were very silly, trying to cover over the simplicity of the story, and moving further and further away from the stuff it did so well at the start. However, I would say that if you consider The Matrix to have a perfect resolution (not a slam against you - I just think it a pretty apt comparison in many ways) your mileage may vary.

[Legolas813]

Interesting to see a different viewpoint because all reviewers and previewers so far have only said great things about the game's story. But an opinion is an opinion, and I respect yours.

[oerhört]

Well, "perfect" was perhaps a bit strong, but the resolution in the Matrix wasn't really my point - only that it doesn't feel as contrived as in Fahrenheit.

And I was referring to the first movie there, by the way. Care to enlighten me about what didn't work out logically when it was revealed at some point what the Matrix really was? I may have overlooked something, but to me, it seemed consistent. Especially seeing how the movie is primarily an action flick, and knowing how such movies often turn to inconsistencies to explain everything at the end.

[Richard]

And I was referring to the first movie there, by the way. Care to enlighten me about what didn't work out logically when it was revealed at some point what the Matrix really was? I may have overlooked something, but to me, it seemed consistent. Especially seeing how the movie is primarily an action flick.

My big problem with it as a movie was that our 'heroes' were a bunch of twisted, amoral, gun-crazed psychopaths happy to murder legions of defenseless human beings just for the sake of their own perverted egos, and yet still have the sheer temerity to claim the moral high-ground over a largely amiable, reasonable enough sounding opponent that had both total control over the world and the balls to fight fair.

But I'm really thinking of the development of the trilogy as a whole rather than trying to pick holes in your choice of example - it has more than a little in common with Fahrenheit's plot twists as things progress.

[Richard]

Interesting to see a different viewpoint because all reviewers and previewers so far have only said great things about the game's story. But an opinion is an opinion, and I respect yours.

And generally, the bits they're talking about - ie, near the start - I agree completely with. The reviews I've seen focus on the real-world, beautifully atmospheric stuff that you start off with, then tail off before hitting the supernatural bits as the background story runs into action.

I just think it goes off the rails quite badly by about the half-way point, before descending into quite the wrong sort of madness. It doesn't become crap, don't get me wrong - just not as good, and not the kind of thing I was enjoying so much in the early hours. (With the exception of a couple of moments, which are shockingly irritating...)

[insane_cobra]

Has any of you people been to Eurogamer today? There's a HUMONGUOUS Fahrenheit ad right there on the frontpage. I guess Atari took their part of the deal seriously.

[kitzingmarko]

Ok, I was browsing the official Indigo boards and I came across these screenshots of the sex scene. So pretty much this is part of what we are missing here in the U.S. This is just the sex scene; none of the frontal nudity present in the game is shown here.

Warning: May not be safe for work or appropriate for minors.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2792/clipboard57yr.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4041/fahrenheitmakelovenotwar52iy.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3702/fahrenheitmakelovenotwar65ss.jpg

Kudos to "paso" at the official Indigo boards (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=492796) for posting the screenshots.

This is what I love about the US moral standards. It's ok to blow off people's heads in a computer game, but two people having sex is cut out.

[Richard]

This is what I love about the US moral standards. It's ok to blow off people's heads in a computer game, but two people having sex is cut out.

And then you put a nude render of the heroine in Playboy.

[honeycomb]

Makes you wonder how gamepads might develop in future for full sensory input.

[Ninth]

Yes, it kept throwing in new twists. Trouble was, most of them were very silly, trying to cover over the simplicity of the story, and moving further and further away from the stuff it did so well at the start. However, I would say that if you consider The Matrix to have a perfect resolution (not a slam against you - I just think it a pretty apt comparison in many ways) your mileage may vary.
Hm... Seeing as I loved the first half of Matrix and hated the second (after Keanu-boy "wakes" up), I might have the same problems with Fahrenheit that you had. Oh well, the demo (which I played yesterday) was interesting, albeit not the second coming as far as I'm concerned, so I'll probably buy it eventually.

[Karmillo]

Makes you wonder how gamepads might develop in future for full sensory input.

Well apparently theres a "sex" mmo thats comming out that is supposed to come with...special peripherals :devil:

[Jackal]

The story really does get silly, no question about it. I get the feeling the final game was scaled back from something larger, as there are holes in the plot that couldn't have been planned from the start (I hope). But it's the pacing and the storytelling techniques that set the game apart. Those are flawed, too, but they're unique enough to earn the game the slack most reviewers are cutting it. (Including me. :D )

As for the nudity, it wasn't worth putting in (gratuitous, useless), and it's not worth taking out (AO? Gimme a break).

[Richard]

But it's the pacing and the storytelling techniques that set the game apart. Those are flawed, too, but they're unique enough to earn the game the slack most reviewers are cutting it

Oh, agreed. It does fine in Format, even with its problems.

[Erwin_Br]

As for the nudity, it wasn't worth putting in (gratuitous, useless), and it's not worth taking out (AO? Gimme a break).

The fact that it's being discussed on forums is probably a reason for putting it in :)

--Erwin

[Jackal]

Except that it probably wouldn't be talked about if it wasn't being taken out. ;)

[painey]

Except that it probably wouldn't be talked about if it wasn't being taken out. ;)

i just want to play this game

[Wormsie]

Except that it probably wouldn't be talked about if it wasn't being taken out. ;)Well, in that case the fact that the nudity being censored is being discussed is probably a reason for putting it in.

[SKOPE]

This is what I love about the US moral standards. It's ok to blow off people's heads in a computer game, but two people having sex is cut out.Hey, we got God of War here. That game has both!

51 M-rated games with nudity and/or strong sexual content. (http://www.esrb.org/search_results.asp?view=tle&rat_5=Mature+%2817%2B%29&count1=6&desID0=32&desID1=8&desID2=24&desID3=28&desID4=37&desID5=4&desID6=44&desID7=31&desID8=23&desID9=38&desID10=27&desID11=22&desID12=39&desID13=10&desID14=25&desID15=30&desID16=52&desID17=56&desID18=55&desID19=43&desID20=46&desID21=50&desID22=51&desID23=53&desID24=54&desID25=34&desID26=41&desYes26=Nudity&desID27=42&desID28=48&desID29=13&desID30=40&desID31=49&desID32=15&desID33=11&desID34=26&desID35=14&desYes35=Strong+Sexual+Content&desID36=12&desID37=33&desID38=35&desID39=21&desID40=36&desID41=20&desID42=29&count2=43&platID0=12&platID1=17&platID2=18&platID3=19&platID4=20&platID5=32&platID6=42&platID7=5&platID8=34&platID9=33&platID10=48&platID11=22&platID12=49&platID13=39&platID14=3&platID15=6&platID16=43&platID17=41&platID18=36&platID19=24&platID20=11&platID21=30&platID22=25&platID23=37&platID24=46&platID25=26&platID26=13&platID27=14&platID28=31&platID29=7&platID30=8&platID31=15&platID32=10&platID33=4&platID34=40&platID35=16&platID36=45&platID37=35&platID38=47&platID39=44&count3=40&pub=&key=&type=game)

I still believe this is all about the "Hot Coffee" scandal. There wasn't anything in the disabled sex scenes in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas that wasn't not disabled in many other M (Mature 17+) rated games, but the controversy created by it and the fact Take Two didn't tell the ESRB about it was what got its rating changed to AO (Adults Only 18+).

And because of this, the ESRB is now being excessively strict on sexual content. I expect this will pass after people forget about Hot Coffee.

[The Most MisunderstoodMan]

Can these sex scenes be skipped? My younger brother will tell my parents then I will be in trouble!

Seriously, how do I skip theM?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

LOL! Why skip them? Just banish your brother when you see these scenes coming (as it were). And you'll know when they're coming. ;)

[Kolorabi]

You can choose not to play the first one (it's really quite obvious - either you ask a certain person to stay, or you don't). The second one is over quite quickly, and if your brother tells your parent about it, you should just show them the scene. Unless you're like ten or something I can't imagine any parents getting worked up about that (they let you watch movies like Titanic, right?).

[DasJan]

Can these sex scenes be skipped? My younger brother will tell my parents then I will be in trouble!
I think the violence scenes would be a lot more disturbing to your brother, but if you really want to skip just the sex scenes then buy the US version. I don't think they are skippable in other versions.

Das Jan

[Intrepid Homoludens]

If your brother is pretty young, The Most MisunderstoodMan, he shouldn't even be allowed to watch any of the game. It's pretty mature themed throughout.

[jedicri]

Nice to hear the input on said sex scenes cut from the North American version of the game. Since it has nothing to do with the overall arc of the story/plot, I've decided to get the censored version instead, though to be honest, I'd prefer the original version better.

[Fop]

If your brother is pretty young, The Most MisunderstoodMan, he shouldn't even be allowed to watch any of the game. It's pretty mature themed throughout.

I understood that his brother will witness MisunderstoodMan playing the game and tell their parents about the sex scenes.

[MDMaster]

Funny, this is the only time you had to use a... JOYSTICK in an 'adventure game' and nobody complained!




(sorry, couldn't miss this one :D)

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Gabe, this is the second time you've posted an image that is clearly meant for adults only. This is a family oriented site, we have people under 17 as members here (from various cultures, some of which may not share your more relaxed view on full nudity in games), and I'm sure a lot of young and/or sensitive lurkers. I know you're posting these to illustrate a point, but we can't have these particular illustrations.

If I weren't taking a break from modding here, I would promptly yet respectfully remove this image, but I let the others know and hopefully they'll do it. Or you can go ahead and do it yourself. Thanks for understanding. :)

[pleto4_ryan]

Firstly, those screens in the first post are very blurry.
Want some goods :P

Secondly. In my first play throught the game i didn't have the first sex-scene. As a result i faced problems with Lucas sanity. The sex-scene actually has a meaning for being there. How do they say it..."Getting off the steam"? :D. I tell you if you don't do this scene, and thereafter "help" a little lucas with his ego and feelings, he is easy to go crazy latter on.
Let's not forget, this is an "interactive" drama, so i believe, (and as this game is from the start a mature game) it can make interactive something like that...

Lastly. Seriously, the interactive sex-scene is utterly funny. If there wasn't such a big fuss about it, people "would" find it funny because that's what its meant to do there. Give you a smile of what those "freaking" designers thought to put in this game.

Oh, and Trep, there's a moment when the camera looks at the couple from the above and...well, you can "see" Lucas from the behind. *wink wink*

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Oh, and Trep, there's a moment when the camera looks at the couple from the above and...well, you can "see" Lucas from the behind. *wink wink*

:shifty: Yeah, I know. Gabe posted a screenie of that. My only complaint is that they never show male full frontal nudity, it's only fair (why the hell are men almost never shown fully nude in movies or games while women are always the ones?). Or do they? I have the censored North American version. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me.

Anyway, I love Sam's beauty! She's got that quintessentially French look and a model's face and body. Gorgeous. But I also love Carla's Italian/Latina beauty as well. These are very nicely done female computer game characters - very realistic and naturalistic.

[pleto4_ryan]

My only complaint is that they never show male full frontal nudity, it's only fair (why the hell are men almost never shown fully nude in movies or games while women are always the ones?). Or do they? I have the censored North American version. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me.

I'd have to say "you are screwd" :).
The only male nudity you will ever see is more to underground, and more art-inclined movies as they never see nudity as something pr0n but they use it as something elegant.
As for the rest. While the designers-producers-writers understand that in sex there's only one road, men likes women-women likes men; and they think that men are the "nudity" maniacs (while females have a big piece of the pie also); you can understand that the movies (and games?) shall keep a "man's" view of the things and only show women nude. *raises his shoulders*
I said it, screwd :D


Oh, i looove Sam. She looks incriduble beautiful. Those lips, those eyes...she was truly designed wonderfully. And i have to say, the moment she came out with her "dress", my breath stopped... :D
As for Carla, she has also a nice beauty, but she is kept more sophisticated and out of romance-sexual incidents...until the end that is. And i love her for that.
I agree, they have done a great job in creating two different women, not only in design but in the script. Strong and interesting, both of them.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Don't forget the tragic Tiffany! Interestingly, even as a minor character she has quite a bit of presence in the story. I really wanted to get to know more about her and why she and Lucas drifted apart. And I love that she still loves Lucas and wants to help him, even though she knows she can never be with him again.

When I found out that she died from falling off the rollercoaster, my heart sank. And to then have Carla visit her grave soon after, that was so touching. :\

[Gabe]

:My only complaint is that they never show male full frontal nudity, it's only fair (why the hell are men almost never shown fully nude in movies or games while women are always the ones?). Or do they? I have the censored North American version. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me.


First you you delete images I've send then you asking for male full frontal nudity !?looks like only want to keep it for yourself ,typical..
(Don't excpect I'm gonna send for you ):7

[pleto4_ryan]

Actually, if you think about it, Tiffany is more involved than Sam.

And I love that she still loves Lucas and wants to help him, even though she knows she can never be with him again.

Not only that, but she helps him a lot, even if police, media and all claim he is (and actually is) a murderer.
I wonder what really happened between them.
I have to say, in the start, in the first call she makes to Lucas, i believed i would meet a "bad" ex-girlfriend when she came to the house. :P
You know the real problem. I find that her death was in vain. Her death was mostly there so Lucas could die, and get ressurect (and also, for Carla to find her true love in the cold-blood guy she looked for :D)
The moment Carla says in the cemetery "I got a call to pay a visit to a ....the ex-girlfriend of Lucas Kane" and then we get a sight of her grave with her photo on it. I caught myself saying "no" :\ This was so cruel :\ . Poor tiffany. Actually, she was a bigger pawn that anyone, even Lucas.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

First you you delete images I've send then you asking for male full frontal nudity !?looks like only want to keep it for yourself ,typical..
(Don't excpect I'm gonna send for you ):7

:P First, I'm asking for more male representation of full nudity NOT because it turns me on, but because it's only fair (especially in the context of more expressiveness of creative freedom for games).

:P Secondly, I was never asking for male nudity to be posted here. Even if you or anyone posted a naked pic of Lucas or any other male character I would have reported it (or deleted it myself if I weren't on break from modding).

So there! Nyah! :P :P :P


(Beautiful nude pic of Sam, btw! Too bad there are underaged members here. Ah well.)

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I find that her death was in vain. Her death was mostly there so Lucas could die, and get ressurect (and also, for Carla to find her true love in the cold-blood guy she looked for :D)
The moment Carla says in the cemetery "I got a call to pay a visit to a ....the ex-girlfriend of Lucas Kane" and then we get a sight of her grave with her photo on it. I caught myself saying "no" :\ This was so cruel :\ . Poor tiffany. Actually, she was a bigger pawn that anyone, even Lucas.

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ed/cry.gif I know! It's all so tragic and so.......unfair! WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!

[Gabe]

:P First, I'm asking for more male representation of full nudity but because it's only fair

Gothca!:P

[Erwin_Br]

:shifty: Yeah, I know. Gabe posted a screenie of that. My only complaint is that they never show male full frontal nudity, it's only fair (why the hell are men almost never shown fully nude in movies or games while women are always the ones?). Or do they? I have the censored North American version. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me.

Anyway, I love Sam's beauty! She's got that quintessentially French look and a model's face and body. Gorgeous. But I also love Carla's Italian/Latina beauty as well. These are very nicely done female computer game characters - very realistic and naturalistic.

You obviously haven't seen one of our Dutch movies. :) And no, I'm not talking about pr0n. Just regular movies broadcasted on national TV.

--Erwin

[After a brisk nap]

You do sometimes see full frontal male nudity in American movies, though almost never presented sexually.

Didn't Sideways have naked guys?

[pleto4_ryan]

You do sometimes see full frontal male nudity in American movies, though almost never presented sexually.

Didn't Sideways have naked guys?

Actually "a" naked guy (and naked woman) and that was...not a good sight for eyes... :r

[Intrepid Homoludens]

You do sometimes see full frontal male nudity in American movies, though almost never presented sexually.

And I find that annoying and insulting. It seems to tip the scale towards the idea that only straight men are allowed to experience such things for their own enjoyment, while ignoring everyone else. At least in Hollywood.

Didn't Sideways have naked guys?

Yes, one graphic scene of a fat naked older guy with his penis showing all over the place. Wasn't at all intended to be sexual, more humourous actually. It was a very funny scene. But there was another sex scene with a more attractive and slightly younger man and Sandra Oh (an actress I really like and whom I hope gets more juicy parts in films).

[Junkface]

I think the reason male nudity is never shown in sexual context in mainstream films is that it opens up difficult areas with the distinction between movies and porn... i.e. whether or not to show erections and so on... at least that's sort of an explanation I remember Billy Connolly using... Actually, full frontal female nudity isn't all that common in American films either...

Regardless, the way Fahrenheit's male characters showered in their boxers was utterly ridiculous.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I think the reason male nudity is never shown in sexual context in mainstream films is that it opens up difficult areas with the distinction between movies and porn... i.e. whether or not to show erections and so on... at least that's sort of an explanation I remember Billy Connolly using... Actually, full frontal female nudity isn't all that common in American films either...

What's the history of that idea? Who is to define the state of the male genital as a deciding factor for whether or not a game or film crosses the line into pornography, and how is that definition validated? Under what conditions? I know that one agreed upon criteria that defines pornography is graphically showing penetration. Even beyond or besides that the male member is rarely shown in a flaccid state. If women were physically able to show sexual arousment as dramatically as men, would this also affect their being shown nude in games and film?

[natalia]

If women were physically able to show sexual arousment as dramatically as men, would this also affect their being shown nude in games and film?

I think this is a part of it, but it's also the fact that the majority of writers, directors, producers, etc... in the movie industry are male. And from the articles I've read, one theory is that these purveyors of mainstream entertainment only think in terms of the value of the male gaze, and what straight men want to see. They haven't yet shown any interest in the value of a woman's (as well as a gay man's) gaze. The entertainment industry is still getting over the taboo that a woman is sexual and wants to see men's bodies as well.

There's also the theory that the person who is naked and being viewed is the one in the vulnerable position, so it makes sense that those in charge (straight men) won't put themselves into that vulnerable position.

Anyway, there's some pretty interesting reading on this topic out there.

Edited to add: http://jaehakim.com/articles/lifestyles/nudity.htm

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I think this is a part of it, but it's also the fact that the majority of writers, directors, producers, etc... in the movie industry are male. And from the articles I've read, one theory is that these purveyors of mainstream entertainment only think in terms of the value of the male gaze, and what straight men want to see. They haven't yet shown any interest in the value of a woman's (as well as a gay man's) gaze. The entertainment industry is still getting over the taboo that a woman is sexual and wants to see men's bodies as well.

This is exactly what I was thinking myself. I was thinking of movies like Basic Instinct, where the sexual - and sexually powerful - woman is depicted as a monster who practically consumes and kills men. In fact, many movies I remember that portray a woman as in charge of her own sexuality are those who punish her for it.

There's also the theory that the person who is naked and being viewed is the one in the vulnerable position, so it makes sense that those in charge (straight men) won't put themselves into that vulnerable position.

This makes a LOT of sense to me, shedding a certain light on the roles, the status that men are expected to conform to in society.

[natalia]

Last off topic post before I go to bed -- this conversation is reminding me of a fascinating class I took on Victorian literature -- there was a whole section on the power of the gaze and we talked about one female character who struggled against the power of the male gaze, she was an actress, was very popular and always at the center of things, she was always being observed. She only regained any semblance of power when ironically she became sort of an outcast. But from her exiled position, she was free to observe and gaze on others and could finally see things for what they really were. Ah, I wish I still had my notes from that class.

[Fairygdmther]

Another issue on male/female nudity is the physical presence of the genitalia - on men they are external, on women, internal. For a woman's genitalia to be shown, she must be spread-legged - and that's porn. On a man, he must just be naked for his genitalia to be visible. A woman can fake being horny, a man can't. This brings up one of the issues of porn films - they have women hired to turn on the guys before they go on camera with their erections. Will Hollywood allow this for mainstream films?

Lynsie

[Sage]

Hmmm...
I seem to remember that any couple that "does it" in a slasher movie usually dies in the next scene, often before they've had a chance to put their clothes on.
With full-frontal male nudity, the issue of characterization comes into play. James Caan made a great Sonny in "The Godfather", but could he have played that same role if it required a full-frontal nude shot? (read the book and you'll understand what I'm talking about) Would the special effects crew have faced a new and unusual challenge? Let's hope they could do a better job than was done on Mark Wahlberg on "Boogie Nights".
Another intriguing challenge for the FX team with full-frontal male nudity would be "outfitting" current actors for period roles occurring before World War II.

ScottMate

[Fairygdmther]

Hmmm...
I seem to remember that any couple that "does it" in a slasher movie usually dies in the next scene, often before they've had a chance to put their clothes on.
With full-frontal male nudity, the issue of characterization comes into play. James Caan made a great Sonny in "The Godfather", but could he have played that same role if it required a full-frontal nude shot? (read the book and you'll understand what I'm talking about) Would the special effects crew have faced a new and unusual challenge? Let's hope they could do a better job than was done on Mark Wahlberg on "Boogie Nights".
Another intriguing challenge for the FX team with full-frontal male nudity would be "outfitting" current actors for period roles occurring before World War II.

ScottMate

Scott, you've left me in the dust here.
1. What was the thing with Sonny? I read the book, but a very long time ago.
2. Didn't see Boogie Nights
3. What do you mean by pre WWII? What is the issue there?

Lynsie

[Sage]

Scott, you've left me in the dust here.
Hmmm...How to put this delicately...

1. What was the thing with Sonny? I read the book, but a very long time ago.
In the book, Sonny was extremely "well-blessed".
2. Didn't see Boogie Nights
Mark Wahlberg plays a pron star, and at the end of the movie he unveils a thoroughly unconvincing extension.
3. What do you mean by pre WWII? What is the issue there?
Prior to WWII, it was a much less...um...kosher world, at least in the US.

ScottMate

[Fairygdmther]

So what you're saying is that with equality in exposure would come the requirement that actors tryout nakedly, like women often have to do now?

Lynsie

[Sage]

So what you're saying is that with equality in exposure would come the requirement that actors tryout nakedly, like women often have to do now?

Lynsie
That wasn't what I was saying, but it's actually a more interesting point.
I'm picturing some very interesting dialogue between the director and the casting director at cattle calls. :D

ScottMate

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I don't think that would be much of a problem with 21st century digital technology. If an actor refuses to bare his/her body (like Andy Garcia or Julia Roberts), s/he could agree to having his/her face 'grafted' onto the shoulders of a body double, whose name could be credited in the titles as "Mr. Garcia's/Miss Roberts' Body Double" so viewers wouldn't think otherwise.

But that's another case. I'm still interested in this whole 'why are there far more instances of full female nudity in movies than male nudity' exploration in movies and games.

[SCRUGAtes13]

it was well fun thrusting the joy pad into my pelvis to simulate real sex with a lady, especially with the satisfying squeeks she was making, this scene is above reality man.

didn't like the look my friend was giving me tho...

[RLacey]

I don't think that would be much of a problem with 21st century digital technology. If an actor refuses to bare his/her body (like Andy Garcia or Julia Roberts), s/he could agree to having his/her face 'grafted' onto the shoulders of a body double, whose name could be credited in the titles as "Mr. Garcia's/Miss Roberts' Body Double" so viewers wouldn't think otherwise.

Then you've just got to persuade everyone to read the credits so that nobody could misinterpret it. Then, just maybe, the actors would agree ;).

Oh, and hasn't this conversation now become far more explicit than any of the posted images? I know that the title of the topic is "Fahrenheit Sex Scene", but there's some fairly... "adult" discussion going on here.

[squarejawhero]

The Pretty Woman body on Ms Roberts in the poster is a body double.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

it was well fun thrusting the joy pad into my pelvis to simulate real sex with a lady, especially with the satisfying squeeks she was making, this scene is above reality man.

didn't like the look my friend was giving me tho...

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif What the hell was your friend doing there watching you? Did you force him to watch? Did you pay him to?

Oh, and hasn't this conversation now become far more explicit than any of the posted images? I know that the title of the topic is "Fahrenheit Sex Scene", but there's some fairly... "adult" discussion going on here.

No. The difference is all in the visuals, not in the visualizing.

[Terramax]

Of course you should, if only to support the game that could revive the genre.

This game wont revive adventure games. It will celebrate hybrid genre gaming.

EDIT: Mind you, Dreamfall: the longest journey 2 is going the same path. Could we be seeing a pattern here? Maybe this is the way forward of sorts. But I wouldn't like to see games like 'Fahrenheit' replace games such as 'Still Life' and 'Broken Sword' though.