Will Fahrenheit have some lame copy protection scheme?

[toblix]

I was about to go preorder Fahrenheit when I realised I don't know if it'll have one of those bullshit intrusive copy protection schemes like that piece of crap Moment of Silence had. Obviously, I need to know. Have any of the developers said anything about this?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

If it has Starforce I'll definitely get the Xbox version instead.

[Legolas813]

There is a discussion going on at the official Indigo forums, but I don't think they have come to an answer yet (they seem to have gotten way off-topic anyways).

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=487122&perpage=30&highlight=&pagenumber=1

[Fop]

I don't really doubt it'll have it. That's the way games are these days.

[insane_cobra]

Well, if it comes with StarForce, I'll still get it, but I'll also get the cracked version.

So much for encouraging people not to buy illegal copies :shifty:

[Kolorabi]

I've only had problems with very early versions of Starforce (Black Mirror), so I'll get it no matter if it has that system or not. I don't like copy protections in general, and there's clearly some issues with StarForce, but I do think it's getting blamed for more than it deserves. The moment someone has problems with a SF-protected game, it's immediately SF they start complaining about, even if the problem is related to something entirely different.

So I'll be getting it, SF or not, because for me SF works just as well as any other copy protection system (and I have tons of SF-protected games). Are there any particular reasons to believe this will come with SF (instead of another system), btw?

I think copy protection systems in general hurt the PC market more than they help it, but that's an issue for another discussion.

[insane_cobra]

I've only had problems with very early versions of Starforce (Black Mirror), so I'll get it no matter if it has that system or not. I don't like copy protections in general, and there's clearly some issues with StarForce, but I do think it's getting blamed for more than it deserves. The moment someone has problems with a SF-protected game, it's immediately SF they start complaining about, even if the problem is related to something entirely different. That's not really the issue. We all know what StarForce does and NO program has the right to take control over any part of my system without me giving it the explicit permission to do so. To me that's malicious software and it should be treated as such.

[DasJan]

piece of crap Moment of Silence
MoS is not a piece of crap. I just felt the need to say that.

Das Jan

[squarejawhero]

^agreed. I felt it had it's problems, but the story made up for it. Plus the developer is an extraordinarily nice chap. :D

[MaryScots]

MoS is not a piece of crap. I just felt the need to say that.

I was just about to write that too, Jan, but I wasn't so sure whether toblix might have referred to StarForce as being a piece of crap?!

[Stu]

There's nothing wrong with Starforce other than the mass hysteria caused purely by idiot pirates who to this day still haven't been able to get Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory for free. I'd bet both testicles that any issues caused by Starforce are rare and minor at most.

[insane_cobra]

There's nothing wrong with Starforce other than the mass hysteria caused purely by idiot pirates who to this day still haven't been able to get Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory for free. Wrong. Start eMule and do a search on Chaos Theory.

I'd bet both testicles that any issues caused by Starforce are rare and minor at most. StarForce forcefully takes control of your IDE channel. Bye-bye testicles.

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

Wrong. Start eMule and do a search on Chaos Theory.

StarForce forcefully takes control of your IDE channel. Bye-bye testicles.

The the new Bet on Soldier game (and the demo) installs StarForce onto your computer also. When the game did run, which was rarely because of frequent lock-ups. It took a bit to get it off, but some people have said that their computer won't evn boot properly after it was/has been installed.

[fov]

If there was any copy protection, I would guess it would be in the Fahrenheit release, and not Indigo. At least that's what they did for TMOS (U.S. version got rid of StarForce).

But you're talking about a completely different publisher, here.

I am wondering if Indigo Prophecy is going to be on DVD or CDs. I'm not sure that question has ever been answered (or if it was, I didn't see it :D).

[Talisman]

There is a good French protection system on both Indigo Prophecy and Fahrenheit PC version.
It's not Starforce.

[Coop]

Probably DVD in uk and CD in US. :shifty:

[Legolas813]

I've only had problems with very early versions of Starforce (Black Mirror), so I'll get it no matter if it has that system or not.

Black Mirror has StarForce?!? I was thinking of getting that game, but if it has StarForce, no thanks.

[Kolorabi]

That's not really the issue. We all know what StarForce does and NO program has the right to take control over any part of my system without me giving it the explicit permission to do so. To me that's malicious software and it should be treated as such.In other words, the issue is that the program does something you don't like, instead of something that actually causes problems for you.

Fair enough, ofcourse. It's your system and your money. I'm not going to deprive myself of playing good games that ship with StarForce just because it does some things that I couldn't care less about to my system, but others are ofcourse free to do whatever they want.

I'm a bit upset about one thing, though. StarForce has completely derailed the debate about disk based copy protection systems. Now it's suddenly okay for companies to take away your right to make backups of your software, provided they don't do it with StarForce. Because StarForce is apparently more evil than The Devil, Bin Laden and Bush put together. :)

[Legolas813]

In other words, the issue is that the program does something you don't like, instead of something that actually causes problems for you.

Well in my case the DVD drive on my laptop has problems reading some games if they use certain forms of copy protection. One example, is my copy of TrackMania which is barely playable anymore. Most of the time my drive will go crazy while the game is looking for the copy protection on the disc. The disc is now getting to the point of getting torn up and I really don't want to mess up my drive either so I don't play it anymore.

I haven't had any problems with games that use StarForce, but the only one I've tried with it is the Still Life demo. I played the actual full game on Xbox just to avoid any problems.

[Kolorabi]

Yes, there are quite a few people who have legitimate problems with StarForce, and if I were one of them, I'd obviously be wary of buying StarForce-games. My short rant wasn't really aimed at you guys.

Most people who complain about it either have problems completely unrelated to StarForce (that they then automatically assume StarForce is to blame for, because they've heard all kinds of bad things about it), have some misconceptions about the system (like thinking it's spyware or that it's impossible to remove) or just don't like what it does. I would also assume that many people dislike it because it's probably the most difficult protection system to crack right now.

[insane_cobra]

In other words, the issue is that the program does something you don't like, instead of something that actually causes problems for you. Both: it cripples my system and that happens to be something I don't like :)

I'm not going to deprive myself of playing good games that ship with StarForce just because it does some things that I couldn't care less about to my system, but others are ofcourse free to do whatever they want. Well, a great number of people is deprived of playing good games exactly because they ship with StarForce. If you have a program installed which StarForce happens to not like, the game won't install. Besides, every game gets cracked, some even before they're officially released, so nobody has to be deprived of anything. They should still own the original copy, of course, but nobody should have to buy the same game twice. Besides, even though you're not doing anything illegal that way, or at least not amoral, you're still putting food on pirates' table. What's the cause of this? StarForce.

Now it's suddenly okay for companies to take away your right to make backups of your software, provided they don't do it with StarForce. Because StarForce is apparently more evil than The Devil, Bin Laden and Bush put together. :) Most other protection systems aren't intrusive and a great deal of backup-making software bypasses them without problems.

[DasJan]

I am wondering if Indigo Prophecy is going to be on DVD or CDs.
It will be a multilingual DVD in Germany, but I don't know about the other territories.

Das Jan

[Kolzig]

UK will have a DVD release.

[Deano]

Another reason people dislike is it that with PC games these days, they install fully onto the hard drive, but still require the CD in the drive to play, for no reason other than copy protection. If a game doesn't use StarForce, no-cd cracks are easy to find. If it does you've got no chance.

[Mattsius]

I bought The Moment of Silence not knowing that it had Starforce on it. I got the game installed, I tried to start it and Starforce wanted the registration code. Everything was just fine and dandy until I had inserted the code and clicked the ok button. After that I got a big fat ERROR message. I tried disabling my firewall/antivirus and shutting down programs running in the background but nothing helped. Man was I angry.

And I still am actually. When I go out and pay for a game I expect to get it to work when I get home to my PC. This was around Christmas last year btw. It ended with me downloading a pirate version of the American version that didn't have Starforce on it. I don't feel that's steeling since I've paid for a copy of the game, but it would sure be bloody nice to be able to play the original European DVD version that I paid for instead of the 4-CD swapping hysteria of the American version that I now have to use. :pan:

[Legolas813]

I don't feel that's steeling since I've paid for a copy of the game, but it would sure be bloody nice to be able to play the original European DVD version that I paid for instead of the 4-CD swapping hysteria of the American version that I now have to use. :pan:

The U.S. version of TMOS had no disc-swapping (if you bought your copy). You can play the game without any CD what-so-ever in the drive and without having to deal with StarForce. It's great.

[toblix]

I was just about to write that too, Jan, but I wasn't so sure whether toblix might have referred to StarForce as being a piece of crap?!

No, I was referring to the game.

[MaryScots]

No, I was referring to the game.

Oh, you were? Then I have to second Jan: It might not have been your cup of tea but MoS is NOT a piece of crap. :shifty:

[toblix]

Oh, you were? Then I have to second Jan: It might not have been your cup of tea but MoS is NOT a piece of crap. :shifty:

So you're saying that something other than real turd can, objectively, be a piece of crap? When I say the game is a piece of crap, it's obviously a subjective comment, and you can't say my opinion is wrong! I'm always right, baby!


But, let me just say what I hated about the game (other than the copy protection scheme):
- The voice acting.

[Mattsius]

The U.S. version of TMOS had no disc-swapping (if you bought your copy). You can play the game without any CD what-so-ever in the drive and without having to deal with StarForce. It's great.
Yeah sorry. I meant that you don't have to swap CDs when installing the game, not when actually playing. You might feel that's being picky and perhaps it is, but DVDs has been around for a good while now, so why not use them.
Plus the developer is an extraordinarily nice chap. :D
Couldn't agree more. One of the nicest I know anyway. http://koti.mbnet.fi/mattsius/ag/smile.gif

[gillyruless]

^agreed. I felt it had it's problems, but the story made up for it. Plus the developer is an extraordinarily nice chap. :D
Oh god. We must do something about that smiley! That smiley makes it look like you are about to eat Martin or something, Sqaresie.

I am one of the few who actually had problems with Star Force. After playing Still Life, my DVD burner will not recognize any blank DVDs. It reads normal DVDs fine but a blank DVD in the drive will give me an error message. Star Force does cause problems to some people but not to the extent that so many people complaining about it. I will still be buying and playing games with Star Force though and hopefully they will continue to work on resolving the issues and make it less problematic.