Play Silent Hill 2 as an adventure game (yes, you can!) [Archive]

Intrepid Homoludens

11-24-2003, 05:58 AM

http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/SigArt/sh2laura1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/SigArt/sh2laura2.jpg

I finally finished Silent Hill 2 (PC) last night - got the water ending (there are 4 serious endings, and 2 joke endings). Oh dear lord, the story was wholly, utterly, uncompromisingly, and unapologetically affecting - sad and poignant. It was exquisite, a metaphysical tragic love story. My eyes brimmed with tears watching the end in-game cutscene. I thought, My god! I would never, ever want anyone I love to have to suffer through that!

Love, loss, despair, longing, guilt, anger, resentment, denial, emptiness, isolation.......it's all there, delicately intertwined. It wasn't a game for me anymore, it became a deeply difficult interactive journey to unbearable but inevitable truths. Oh man, the poetry, w00t! ( <snob> feisar, I wanna scold you for not thinking deeply enough about games like this, I wish you would! I'd talk to you more </snob> )

http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/SigArt/sh2eddie.jpg http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/SigArt/sh2boat.jpg

I only regret that not enough people - many hardcore adventure gamers in particular, I think - have made the effort to check this game out as a legitimate adventure game with a powerful story, psychologically complex yet troubled characters, and imaginatively devious (and often macabre) puzzles. You guys really need to experience it. You can manipulate the settings to transform it from survival horror into an adventure game! There is a 'beginner' difficulty for combat and a 'hard' difficulty for puzzles, which means you can worry much less about dying and focus more on exploration and puzzlework. A quicksave/quickload function in the PC version forgives you if you screw up. There are cheat codes that give you more health and ammunition - guilt free. Even Universal Hint System can nudge you along if you get stuck. Look around and you'll find it for $20 or less. I played it on 'easy' combat and 'hard' puzzle modes - no problem.

The game is stupefyingly beautiful to look at!! The characters are rendered in-engine to effect a eerily realistic and familiar look and movement - like people you've seen walking down the street. The production quality goes through the ceiling. Just check out the pics above, all in-game. This is adventuring at its most high caliber, poetic, artistic, emotionally uncompromised, reflective, and hauntingly beauteous. I'll also warn you that this game is NOT that Monkey Island style forced happy happy cartoon cliché, it is not Pokeman. This is a truly adult story that explores themes that may give even grownups nightmares. This is a different kind of adventure (it makes even Post Mortem or Sanitarium look like a cheap joke).

For those of you who have played it, what are your thoughts about it as an adventure game? Did the story and characters affect you? How? How well did the exploration and reading clues, notes, and historical information deepen your experience of the story, location, characters, and events? Finally, did you play it only at night, alone?

All I can say now is that I so painfully look forward to Silent Hill 3 (PC) in a couple of weeks. I have played - and survived - the first Silent Hill (PS1).

HempKnight

11-24-2003, 06:09 AM

Yes, SH2 is great, even for adventure game purists :)
BTW it's best played with gamepad with forcefeedback.

Intrepid Homoludens

11-24-2003, 06:20 AM

Hemp, have you read President Evil's analysis (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/30429.html)* of the story, events, and characters? It's lengthy, but truly insightful and eloquently interpretive. I mean, for chrissakes!! Nobody ever writes stuff like this for adventure game stories, what's with this community, they just wanna play and not think? :P :D :P

*Just scroll down and look for 'Plot Guide' by President Evil.

Oh, btw, the other day I just finished my analysis of the symbolisms of life and death in Syberia. Discussions here: http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=934

Tanukitsune

11-24-2003, 07:18 AM

Remember my thread were I said that survival horror and adventures are related? :P
I loved Silent Hill 2... But the director's comments were disturbing... "The leg monsters are sexy" :crazy:
But I think Silent Hill has a deeper plot than most Survival Horror games....

Intrepid Homoludens

11-24-2003, 07:33 AM

....I think Silent Hill has a deeper plot than most Survival Horror games....

Ha! Silent Hill 1 & 2 have deeper, more thoughtful plots than many adventure games. :7

Henke

11-24-2003, 07:34 AM

RemiO

11-24-2003, 07:40 AM

Silent Hill 2 is one of my favorite games, and is worth playing multiple times just to see the extra endings and the extra items (books, etc.). SH3 is a very good game also, but it's a let down that they pretty much tell you what's going on in the first and third game, instead of leaving it a David Lynch-styled mystery as they did with the previous games.

Tanukitsune

11-24-2003, 07:44 AM

Ha! Silent Hill 1 & 2 have deeper, more thoughtful plots than many adventure games. :7
True, true...
Sometimes too thoughtful.... Thinking too much about the plot gives me a headache! :(

Intrepid Homoludens

11-24-2003, 07:47 AM

Silent Hill 2 was indeed a truly great game. Although it always bugged me that they didn't want to explain anything of the true meaning behind the story. Now people can discuss this in the official forum but I think it feels more like a lack of competent writing then a genius artistic move from the developers.

Didn't you pay attention to all those little newspaper clippings, historical documents, pamphlets, notes, letters, diaries, graffiti, epitaphs, photographs, and monument etchings you found on the way? Don't tell me you failed to make connections, there were so many threads going back and forth between all those pieces of information. They did offer explanations of the nature of the events and what they could mean, but you were the one who had to sort through them, you had to work to establish the intersections and waypoints, and then formulate your own conclusions. The closer you edged to the end of the story, the more connected all the information you had collected became. The endings this time were concrete and made sense, in contrast to the first Silent Hill, where the plot and endings were too ambiguous and full of holes. I don't think it's a lack of competent writing at all. The story was told in a variety of ways - dialogue, internal thoughts, collected visual and written documents, cutscenes, and general exploration.

Henke

11-24-2003, 08:08 AM

Didn't you pay attention to all those little newspaper clippings, historical documents, pamphlets, notes, letters, diaries, graffiti, epitaphs, photographs, and monument etchings you found on the way? Don't tell me you failed to make connections, there were so many threads going back and forth between all those pieces of information. They did offer explanations of the nature of the events and what they could mean, but you were the one who had to sort through them, you had to work to establish the intersections and waypoints, and then formulate your own conclusions. The closer you edged to the end of the story, the more connected all the information you had collected became. The endings this time were concrete and made sense, in contrast to the first Silent Hill, where the plot and endings were too ambiguous and full of holes. I don't think it's a lack of competent writing at all. The story was told in a variety of ways - dialogue, internal thoughts, collected visual and written documents, cutscenes, and general exploration.

SH3 is a very good game also, but it's a let down that they pretty much tell you what's going on in the first and third game, instead of leaving it a David Lynch-styled mystery as they did with the previous games.

There you have it Intrepid. RemiO has pointed out exactly what I mean (although he prefers it the other way around :P ). It seems that I will like the third game more, storywise. :D

Garyos

11-24-2003, 08:56 AM

How is the ending decided? Are there distinct crossways which you know will change the plot, or is it random? I remember watching a friend completing SH1 and neither of us understood anything at all....

I think I'm going to buy this now, regardless if I've played SH1 or not. I don't think I'll play SH3 before I've played SH1, though.

SamandMax

11-24-2003, 08:59 AM

SH2 has really nothing to do with the first, so you can play this one without playing SH1.

I agree with Intrepid. Even if you hate survival horror games, you should play SH2. Pyramid Head is worth the price of the game alone, not to mention the storyline and puzzles. If you have a PS2, it's a greatest hits game, so there's no reason for you not to get it!

Intrepid Homoludens

11-24-2003, 09:33 AM

How is the ending decided? Are there distinct crossways which you know will change the plot, or is it random? I remember watching a friend completing SH1 and neither of us understood anything at all....

It's quite tricky. You receive one of the four endings* based on your 'behaviour' throughout the whole game. For example, if you tend to examine certain items in your inventory repeatedly, read certain writings found, or refuse to go a specific location, it will trigger one ending. The endings vary in tone, from neutral to hopeful to utterly tragic. You can always consult UHS hints (or various walkthroughs) on this for more info.

* I'm not counting the 2 bonus joke endings because they're more like silly easter eggs and have nothing to do with the story proper.

I think I'm going to buy this now, regardless if I've played SH1 or not. I don't think I'll play SH3 before I've played SH1, though.

You should get the PC version if you can. It's optimized with unlimited saves, you can save anywhere you want (except during boss fights), there are more settings options, and you can really crank up the settings and bask in the full graphical beauty. The dynamic lighting and shadows are on the same level as Splinter Cell and DX: Invisible War.

I agree with Intrepid. Even if you hate survival horror games, you should play SH2. Pyramid Head is worth the price of the game alone, not to mention the storyline and puzzles. If you have a PS2, it's a greatest hits game, so there's no reason for you not to get it!

Like I stated, if you approach it as an adventure game with a powerful story, it can really crawl under your skin! All you need to do is crank down the combat difficulty level and crank up the puzzle difficulty level. So many adventure gamers are missing out on this awesome experience just because they think they have to shoot everything. As I said, crank down the combat to 'beginner' and you'll have, what, only 1 or 2 enemies to deal with per level.

Zanthia

11-25-2003, 02:34 AM

Actually, you can recieve different ending from one savegame.For example, In the last hotel you having full healthpoints will recieve different endings than you having er.. not full health. Even if you read all the diares(1... :)).

feisar

11-25-2003, 04:40 AM

um despite being one of the best games of all time SH2 is still action, still is largely based around fighting however u look at it. Although its nice how my posts for the past two years on the option to tone down action and turn up the puzzles fell on deaf ears (with intrepid anyway :P ).

the reason i critised SH3 was because its basically the same again. With different people, slightly better graphics, slightly worse design, a very sloppy opening, an improved controls/action/game system and you need to play it for a long time until it reaches the standard of SH2. It was written in a year and has more action. They didnt fix long running flaws, like the un-interactive world, camera and turn and move controls. Its still great and better than most other survival horror titles, but progress forever moves onwards and sadly SH looks like its being left behind.. Project Zero/Fatal Frame does the same but a lot better than SH3. It looks like Sony's Siren has moved things again..

When it comes down to it, its personal preference. Also I lent my boss SH3 after he finished SH2 & he did SH1 before that.. he thinks it sux too :P 2 against 1 :P in your face :P *runs away*

(btw dont let that stop you looking forward to it! mwhahah)

Intrepid Homoludens

11-25-2003, 06:27 AM

Although its nice how my posts for the past two years on the option to tone down action and turn up the puzzles fell on deaf ears (with intrepid anyway).

Intrepid hadn't had a chance to play Silent Hill 2 in the past two years because Intrepid does not own a PS2 and therefore could not experience for himself the "...option to tone down action and turn up the puzzles." How does that fall on [feisar's] deaf ears? http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/unknown/face15.gif

the reason i critised SH3 was because its basically the same again. With different people, slightly better graphics, slightly worse design, a very sloppy opening, an improved controls/action/game system and you need to play it for a long time until it reaches the standard of SH2. It was written in a year and has more action. They didnt fix long running flaws, like the un-interactive world, camera and turn and move controls. Its still great and better than most other survival horror titles, but progress forever moves onwards and sadly SH looks like its being left behind..

I agree that SH2 wasn't a perfect game, but more for technical reasons than conceptual.

Like I stated before, I'll pump in my own critique once I get to play SH3 (PC). I respect your comments, but to be quite honest I actually don't trust your recommendations and criticisms all that much. I think it has to do with my criteria being emphatically different from yours. You tend to fixate too much on the game's flaws first and your opinions seem rushed, generalized, self serving, slightly arbitrary, and lacking in reflection. Sorry to be scathing, feisar, but you need to work on your skills as a critic. As it stands, you are a gaming aficionado, not a connoisseur.

In judging a game I prefer to take everything in first in a macrocosm - concept, production, and the appropriateness of the technology combined with the efficacy pertaining to the player's total experience, from visual to intellectual to psychological and emotional. I even like studying the game in question in its current cultural and societal context to test its appropriateness for the spirit of its time. After that I zoom in and bounce all the elements off each other to see how and if they work, and if they don't work, where they failed. Finally, I just test it on a basic level to see if it's fun to play and experience. I don't consider myself a good critic, I don't consider myself a 'game-ophile', but I do think that I'm at least a thoughtful, meticulous, and fair critic.

Actually, you should read the work of some truly good game critics and take pointers. These guys don't merely blurt out arbitrations and generic opinions, they are far more thorough than that in their experience, examinations, and research of games. There are far, far too many awful and inept critics in the gaming media, lacking in both writing talent and strengths in critical judgments. You owe it to yourself as a serious gamer to read these:

Slo-mo gore, John Woo style (http://dir.salon.com/tech/review/2001/08/24/max_payne/index.html) - review of Max Payne by Wagner James Au, Salon.com
ICO (http://www.avault.com/consoles/reviews/ps2/review_temp.asp?game=ico) - review by Mike Laidlaw, The Adrenaline Vault
To Catch A Thief (http://archive.salon.com/21st/reviews/1999/02/10review.html) - review of Thief: The Dark Project by Wagner James Au, Salon.com
Blair Witch Volume 1: Rustin Parr (http://www.avault.com/reviews/review_temp.asp?game=bwrp&page=1) - review by David Laprad, The Adrenaline Vault
Deus Ex (http://www.gamesfirst.com/reviews/shawn/deus_ex/deus_ex.asp) - review by Shawn Rider, Gamesfirst

Project Zero/Fatal Frame does the same but a lot better than SH3. It looks like Sony's Siren has moved things again..

feisar, I wish you would damn explain in detail why something is better than another thing! See, this is one glaring reason why I don't wanna trust your recommendations, man.

As with any genre, survival horror has its conventions, some of which seriously need to be thrown out with the trash. Part of the fault lies with the developers, who don't think outside the box enough, another part of the fault lies with the gamers themselves, who buy the shit just because it's the latest 'cool' survival horror title and they have to have it. Hmmm, not much difference between that and the adventure game genre, eh?

When it comes down to it, its personal preference.

http://burns.thefinaldimension.org/ups/chaos/smile2.gif Can you say "D'uh!!!", feisar? Can you?

And really, the fact that it's ultimately personal preference isn't the point. The point is that if you're gonna judge one game superior to another you need to be critical, methodical, and highly articulate in your argument and theory, you need to think about why one game is better than another and how valid the reasons are. Otherwise people will dismiss you as some annoying 13-year-old fanboy with too much time on his hands. I know you're far more intelligent than that, especially since you're one of the most devoted gamers here, always posting the weekly popularity charts. Well, you know you can always post other informative things.

Oh, and feisbaby, I noticed you hadn't addressed my little acerbic proposition above:

( <snob> feisar, I wanna scold you for not thinking deeply enough about games like this, I wish you would! I'd talk to you more </snob> )

Garyos

11-26-2003, 03:10 AM

Okay, I bought the Directors Cut. It looks amazing so far. Would you reccomend playing it with or without the noise filter? I'd like to play it as it was intended...

The fog makes me scared! I never know what's in front of me.... And I love the way my map gets more and more crossed out everywhere, it's really claustrophobic.

I'm playing it with easy combat and normal puzzles, since I really just want to play this for the story. How long is it?

RemiO

11-26-2003, 03:33 AM

Keep the noise filter on, it really adds to the game. In the original PS2 version you couldn't even turn it off until you completed the game once.

As for the length, it took me about nine hours to finish it on hard puzzles and normal combat.

Intrepid Homoludens

11-26-2003, 03:48 AM

Okay, I bought the Directors Cut. It looks amazing so far. Would you reccomend playing it with or without the noise filter? I'd like to play it as it was intended...

The original PS2 version used the filter to cover up any graphical shortcomings like low pixels and textures.

I decided to keep the noise filter on the whole time, as it lended the gameworld a sort of fuzzed out, surreal, gritty look - a bit cinematic. But if you turn it off you'll feel more immediate in your surroundings - try it this way for several minutes to see what I mean.

The fog makes me scared! I never know what's in front of me.... And I love the way my map gets more and more crossed out everywhere, it's really claustrophobic.

http://www.smilies.okipages.com/s/contrib/owen/PBsmile1a.gif Then it's doing its job perfectly, yes? Crank the fog setting at maximum to keep it swirling around James, like it's taunting him - the metaphor is irresistable. I actually decided that the fog itself was a separate character whose evil purpose was to stall James from finding out the truth and at the same time punishing him by blinding him at all turns.

I hope you're patient about checking every single door in each level. This is one of the game's more annoying mistakes, they should have provided little clues/hints on which rooms had any significance so you can try to figure out where to go directly. Instead, they make you try every single door in town.

I'm playing it with easy combat and normal puzzles, since I really just want to play this for the story. How long is it?

I originally started it on hardest combat and hardest puzzles, but the stupid conventions of the typical survival horror game - moronic camera angles, slow character reaction, etc. - threw if off balance and made it unfair gameplaywise, so I took a break from it. Then I decided, like you, to simply just focus on enjoying the gameworld, exploring, watching the cutscenes, tackling the puzzles, and most important, unravelling the story. If you really want to almost eliminate combat entirely, play on 'beginner'. I played it off and on and finished it in just over a week.

The story is one of the most haunting, tragic, and heartbreaking tales you'll ever experience in a computer game, trust me. Even most pure adventure games can't touch SH2 for its depth of story! Even TLJ and Syberia! Let yourself get attached to the characters, the story really oozes out from them.

BTW, is it the PC version you have? In any case, once you finish the game proper, play the short 'Born From A Wish' scenario, where you get to play as Maria. It'll give you a pretty creepy glimpse into her signifance. Plus it's also a really tragic little story in itself.

Garyos

11-26-2003, 03:55 AM

I hope you're patient about checking every single door in each level. This is one of the game's more annoying mistakes, they should have provided little clues/hints on which rooms had any significance so you can try to figure out where to go directly. Instead, they make you try every single door in town.

I don't mind that at all! As I said, I like watching those scrawly lines everywhere on my map... I feel that's reward enough for checking everything.

I originally started it on hardest combat and hardest puzzles, but the stupid conventions of the typical survival horror game - moronic camera angles, slow character reaction, etc. - threw if off balance and made it unfair gameplaywise, so I took a break from it. Then I decided, like you, to simply just focus on enjoying the gameworld, exploring, watching the cutscenes, tackling the puzzles, and most important, unravelling the story. If you really want to almost eliminate combat entirely, play on 'beginner'. I played it off and on and finished it in just over a week.

Well, on "easy", you get a chainsaw almost immediately.... I dunno if I want it to be THAT easy, but I don't really mind either.

BTW, is it the PC version you have?

Yup. I always buy the PC version of games if I have the choice.

Intrepid Homoludens

11-30-2003, 08:32 AM

http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/january03/silenthill2pc/8s.jpg

FYI, I've updated my personal site with a feature page on Silent Hill 2 (http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/ego/egolayout_006.htm). I wanted to focus on the powerful narrative qualities of the game, how characters, events, locations, and even objects contribute to the overall weight, depth, and ultimate resonance of the story. Please check it out when you have a chance.

Jackal

12-10-2003, 04:22 PM

Well, I just finished this game, and while I agree with you on some points, Trep, the game fell completely apart in others. (No, I don't mean the obvious "gamey" ones like horrendous camera angles.)

First the good. SH2 definitely has the most intensely disturbing narrative of any game I've ever played. The psychological issues are as dark and dismal as they are complex, and the game is completely unapologetic about it. The more you explore Silent Hill (the town) and uncover its secrets (or perhaps I should say uncover its mysteries), the deeper into the characters' psychoses you delve. The story definitely drives this game, not the action, and you won't want to leave one stone unturned in case you miss something that might offer a clue.

The other overwhelming success of the game is its atmosphere. Good LORD, it's creepy!! The fog, the grime, the blood, the lighting, the sounds (radio static will never sound the same again)... Before you've met even the first of the grotesque enemies, you'll be hopelessly on edge.

Unfortunately, the drama is significantly squelched by lame voice acting. Not Watchmaker-pathetic or Resident Evil-laughable, but it detracts from the emotional impact. The dialogue is a little forced, but that isn't the problem. There simply isn't much natural about the way the characters express themselves, or the way they interact with each other. I don't know if this is purely the result of translation, but it sure seems that tones, inflections, pauses, etc. are often inappropriate, and the whole thing feels awkward. Given the poor quality of acting in many games, this may not merit much attention in its own right, but the mood it work so hard to achieve is continually undermined by the delivery.

My other complaint is that the fighting felt... gratuitous. Not in the sense of violence and gore (although there's plenty of that), but that it had no relevance to the story. The major nemesis did, sure, but there was absolutely no reference point for the other creepy crawlies in the game. Why the heck was the town overrun by zombies 'n such? To make matters worse, the characters didn't seem to care, either. Where was the fear? Where was the urgency? Honestly, it seemed like the story writers and the action designers were completely unaware of what the other was doing, and only at the last minute was it run through the blender to mix them together. The result was the whole game felt like it had an identity crisis, and that... hey, wait a sec... maybe that was the POINT?? Irony? .... Naaaaah.

Anyway, the game spooked the bejeebers out of me, and I did admire the willingness to venture where others dare to tread. I played on normal action, and I wish now I'd chosen an easier option. The game wasn't difficult, but since the fighting emphasized the weakest aspects of the game, ultimately I felt that the increased difficulty was counter-productive.

Glad I played it, and glad to be done with it. I'll definitely play SH3, but only after a nice long break. *D

Intrepid Homoludens

12-10-2003, 04:52 PM

SH2 definitely has the most intensely disturbing narrative of any game I've ever played. The psychological issues are as dark and dismal as they are complex, and the game is completely unapologetic about it. The more you explore Silent Hill (the town) and uncover its secrets (or perhaps I should say uncover its mysteries), the deeper into the characters' psychoses you delve. The story definitely drives this game, not the action, and you won't want to leave one stone unturned in case you miss something that might offer a clue.

The other overwhelming success of the game is its atmosphere. Good LORD, it's creepy!! The fog, the grime, the blood, the lighting, the sounds (radio static will never sound the same again)... Before you've met even the first of the grotesque enemies, you'll be hopelessly on edge.

I originally started this game on hard combat and hard puzzles. But because of my sudden recent illness and mental shifting, I re-started it on easy combat and hard puzzles in order to focus more on the story and the puzzles (to re-focus my mind). Because I didn't need to worry about fighting and dying any more, I was completely free to explore the gameworld more or less at leisure (with just the occasional nasty to run past or clobber to death) and, more importantly, pay a lot more attention to the story and character interactions.

Unfortunately, the drama is significantly squelched by lame voice acting...it detracts from the emotional impact....There simply isn't much natural about the way the characters express themselves, or the way they interact with each other. I don't know if this is purely the result of translation, but it sure seems that tones, inflections, pauses, etc. are often inappropriate, and the whole thing feels awkward. Given the poor quality of acting in many games, this may not merit much attention in its own right, but the mood it work so hard to achieve is continually undermined by the delivery.

It's one of the most blatant design f&*k-ups in survival horror games. I don't know why the designers put in so much narrative and drama, only to ruin the execution with subpar voice acting and choreography. However, if you compare the SH series with other survival horror titles, it arguably stands out as the best and most thought out in terms of dramatic presentation. If you haven't yet uninstalled the game, go back to the in-game cutscenes, turn the sound off, and watch them. Despite inconsistencies here and there, the general direction is quite good (imho) and should be seriously studied by adventure game developers in addition to film.

My other complaint is that the fighting felt... gratuitous...Why the heck was the town overrun by zombies 'n such? To make matters worse, the characters didn't seem to care, either. Where was the fear? Where was the urgency? Honestly, it seemed like the story writers and the action designers were completely unaware of what the other was doing, and only at the last minute was it run through the blender to mix them together. The result was the whole game felt like it had an identity crisis...

Well, what did you expect from a Survival Horror game? A picnic with cake and ice cream?

Anyway, the game spooked the bejeebers out of me, and I did admire the willingness to venture where others dare to tread. I played on normal action, and I wish now I'd chosen an easier option. The game wasn't difficult, but since the fighting emphasized the weakest aspects of the game, ultimately I felt that the increased difficulty was counter-productive.

This is the first SH title you've played? The original Silent Hill on Playstation was far more tense and scary. That game really f&*ked with your mind, it was unforgivingly manipulative.

Jackal

12-10-2003, 05:39 PM

Well, what did you expect from a Survival Horror game? A picnic with cake and ice cream?

No, I got exactly what I expected from a Survival Horror game. But in light of the dramatic efforts in other ways, this was a disappointment. I'm not complaining about HAVING to fight, which I'm used to (pretty easy even on normal); merely that the need to do so wasn't justified within the context of the story. Weren't we discussing this as an adventure? ;) It wouldn't have taken too much additional writing to weave in a strand that linked in the presence of monsters. If I'm to identify emotionally with characters onscreen, then they bloody well better be crappin' THEIR pants when I'm crappin' mine. :(

Just for the record, I think the game would have been flat out amazing with an "adventure" mode that kept the enemies, but had them be disinterested in your character - merely wandering around in whatever hellish torment they exist in.

This is the first SH title you've played? The original Silent Hill on Playstation was far more tense and scary. That game really f&*ked with your mind, it was unforgivingly manipulative.

If by SH you mean Silent Hill (not Survival Horror), then yes. I don't have a Playstation, though, so I'm SOL.

Igor

12-10-2003, 08:23 PM

Some good points Singer.

I also thought characters could show a bit more interest in what is going on around them (that goes especially to James, whos cold attitude at times adds to the odd feeling of game, but more often than not takes from suspense). That's one of the things i liked in SH3 more- Heather was much more responsive to happenings around her and that made her more "alive".

Another thing SH3 did better than 2 were puzzles and storytelling.
But that doesn't mean the third game is overally better than the second. SH2 was even a bit scarrier and the story itself was better- more psychological (story in SH3 has more in common with the first game).

Just for the record, I think the game would have been flat out amazing with an "adventure" mode that kept the enemies, but had them be disinterested in your character - merely wandering around in whatever hellish torment they exist in.

That's the "Beginner" action level (not "Easy"). It's practically pure adventure.

Dark_Ride

01-13-2004, 06:49 AM

I have a problem:
I have formated my HDD and have not backed-up my save-game files of Silent Hill 2 - Director's Cut. :\

I have finished the game once and now want to continue (play again)

Can somone tell where to find save-games for SH2 - DC ??

Intrepid Homoludens

01-24-2004, 10:32 AM

Can somone tell where to find save-games for SH2 - DC ??

Try this SH forum (http://www.silenthillforum.co.uk/forum/). Someone may be able to help you there.

LauraMac

01-24-2004, 10:43 AM

Have to back up and read this thread from the beginning, but glad to see the discussion. I just ordered a copy of SH2 last week.

Hmmm have to go see about scrounging up a copy of the first one for the console. I take it, they didn't make SH1 for the PC?

Intrepid Homoludens

01-24-2004, 11:03 AM

No they didn't, Laura. SH1 was strictly for PS1 (or PS2 if you have it). But you can play it with an emulator on your PC, I think.

It's very well worth it to play the first SH. I've never seen a game in any genre spilling over with that many references. Things like: all the street signs being named after horror novel writers; posters of favourite bands all over the town ; various references to themes in movies and t.v. (Jacob's Ladder, The Fog, Twin Peaks, etc.); etc. Also, there are some truly excellent 'scare-the-shit-out-of-you' moments. And then there are the allusions to such disturbing issues as drug abuse, child abuse, torture, devil worship, and the occult.

Grey

01-27-2004, 08:29 PM

No they didn't, Laura. SH1 was strictly for PS1 (or PS2 if you have it). But you can play it with an emulator on your PC, I think.

There's a helpful thread regarding SH1 emulation in Konami's Silent Hill forum.

http://www.konami.com/main/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000344

Grey

01-27-2004, 08:43 PM

FYI, I've updated my personal site with a feature page on Silent Hill 2 (http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/ego/egolayout_006.htm).

Where? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

Intrepid Homoludens

01-31-2004, 08:43 PM

Where? Maybe I'm not looking hard enough?

:o Oops. Sorry. I fixed it (http://www.geocities.com/sectorblue/ego/egolayout_008.htm).

Bastich

01-31-2004, 09:13 PM

I just wanted to thank you, Intrepid, for your recommendation that I play SH2. Despite some of its flaws, it is quite simply the best action-adventure game I have ever played. I agree with pretty much everything you had to say about it. This is the first game I have ever played that was able to evoke any pathos in me at all. The thematic elements of the game are still resonating in my mind many hours after the fact. Most movies even fail to do that for me. SH2 is better than ANY adventure game I have ever played as far as story. Period.

I have seen the future of AGs right here in this game. Add one or two more notches to the puzzle difficulty level and it would be almost perfect. I can't praise this game enough. This has caused a total paradigm shift in my thinking regarding AGs...

Thanks again!!!

Intrepid Homoludens

02-01-2004, 07:41 AM

http://www.myvidtodvd.com/mysmilies/contrib/tweetz/nod.gif I'm glad you enjoyed it, Bastich. And yeah, I agree, the story in Silent Hill 2 pretty much trumps any adventure game story in terms of overall emotional and psychological resonance. Adventure game developers should play it (and the first Silent Hill) and really study the narrative in-depth. One of the handful of grievances I have, though, is that the characters need to be really fleshed out more, i.e. the story should be more clear about their individual pasts, what makes them tick, and why they may or may not be aware of the strange goings on in the town. Basically, they need to give you a chance at a foothold into each character, a way of identifying with them so that whatever happens in the story you experience some level of feelings alongside them, or some relief that they finally got what they deserve.

At the same time, I think it's great that they leave some things out, allowing your imagination a lot of space into the story. This can ignite your wandering mind into gleaning its own details about each character: what happened in his childhood? Was she a drug addict? Was she directly responsible for the disappearence of her family? Can he see those horrific creatures too?

The Silent Hill series is not perfect by any means (especially in the combat portion), but it does allow you to experience a far deeper emotional and meta-intellective story than any other game out there, whether you want it to or not. No other adventure game story I've experienced thus far has come remotely close. I think you have a point, these titles could represent the future of adventure games in terms of narrative scope, depth, and intensity. But that's only contingent on adventure game devs and adventure gamers 'discovering' this series and being inspired by it.

Hmmm, I wonder what Benoit Sokal, Ragnar Tornquist, and Jane Jensen would think if they played all the games in the Silent Hill series. Have they played it?

Grey

02-28-2004, 05:54 PM

I've owned this game for over a year and finally decided to play it after reading this thread. I completely agree with everyone's assessment of the story, but I have to say that the story is the only reason I played this game to its end. The other aspects of the game were rather disappointing.

The graphics were great, but I found it frustrating that I couldn't see more than three steps in front me. Sure, it created an element of fear - not knowing what was lurking in the fog or darkness, but exploring the town would've been much more enjoyable if I could've seen all of it. You miss half of the town unless you turn around and walk back down the opposite side of the street. Who wants to do that? Too much of the artistry goes to waste here.

The camera and character control was awful. It was pretty annoying to enter a room or hallway filled with monsters, only to have the camera pointed at James' face. Interacting with the environment was much harder than it needed to be. I missed a few important details simply because I didn't have James in exactly the right position to examine an object, and it took me forever to figure out how to work something as simple as an elevator because, if you're a couple of pixels off, James won't use the buttons.

And what's with all of the broken locks? Wouldn't it have made more sense to give some sort of visual clue - instead of forcing us to try each and every one of them? I had more fun redesigning the game box (http://madrabbit.net/temp/sh2-alt_box.html) than I did exploring any of the buildings.

I'm not sorry I played this game. The story was good enough to keep me interested. It's just the actaual gameplay that could have been so much better.

Intrepid Homoludens

02-28-2004, 06:35 PM

Bastich

02-29-2004, 12:21 PM

You miss half of the town unless you turn around and walk back down the opposite side of the street. Who wants to do that? Too much of the artistry goes to waste here.

Yes, but that is where all the goodies are hidden. It is worth searching both sides to get all the ammo and health.

The camera and character control was awful. It was pretty annoying to enter a room or hallway filled with monsters, only to have the camera pointed at James' face.

It sounds like you weren't aware of the Search key. It was "S" on the keyboard. I used it extensively throughout the game to not have those situations occur. Hitting "S" would move the camera from looking at you to the Tomb Raider style over the shoulder view. The camera rotated slowly, but it worked unless you had your back up against a wall. I encountered almost no bad camera angles because of this.

Interacting with the environment was much harder than it needed to be. I missed a few important details simply because I didn't have James in exactly the right position to examine an object, and it took me forever to figure out how to work something as simple as an elevator because, if you're a couple of pixels off, James won't use the buttons.

This is a valid complaint in some cases. They should have made the discovery radius a bit larger.

And what's with all of the broken locks? Wouldn't it have made more sense to give some sort of visual clue - instead of forcing us to try each and every one of them?

LMAO! This is very true. I was only annoyed in the beginning though, before I realized that the only doors in town you could enter are the ones specially marked on the map. At first I tried to enter every building and got a bit frustrated. It didn't bother me so much in the buildings though.

The story is the best for sure. There is no other comparison for me.

Bastich

02-29-2004, 12:30 PM

:) The Silent Hill series never was known for its gameplay. That's why I think that ultimately it's more fun to crank down the combat difficulty, crank up the puzzle difficulty, and experience the whole thing more as an adventure game. I've played the original SH and so far that's the best. I haven't yet played SH3 (I heard it's more combat intensive but also more story driven). Of course, my opinion about the combat may change with Silent Hill 4: The Room. We'll see.

I actually liked the game-play in SH2. Maybe I am weird. I played on normal action difficulty and found the combat to be easy and intuitive and actually enjoyed the fighting. At the end, I actually wished I had played on hard.

SH3, OTOH, kicked my butt. The combat was SO much harder I couldn't believe it. I actual regretted playing on normal and should have picked easy. The funny thing is that the normal monsters are much harder than the bosses because they gang up on you, sometimes as many as 5 at a time. There is very little ammo and health and you have to use certain attacks on certain creatures or you will miss them, etc. SH3 is MUCH more of an action game.

As for the story, it doesn't hold a candle to SH2. It was kind of typical to me. You also play most of the game without even knowing anything about the story, so there isn't much to drive you forward at first. Don't take me wrong though, SH3 is still a good game, but SH2 I will play again, while SH3, I won't.

Grey

02-29-2004, 02:27 PM

It sounds like you weren't aware of the Search key. It was "S" on the keyboard.

I used the Search key quite a bit, but it doesn't work when you need it the most. Like you said, it doesn't work if there's a wall behind you. Because of that, we're forced to walk blindly into all of the rooms and most hallways.

Intrepid Homoludens

08-19-2004, 06:42 PM

Sorry to bump this one, but it was mentioned in a current thread so I thought I'd pimp myself. :D

8-) Isak, I hope you're reading this!

Grey

08-19-2004, 07:03 PM

That's funny because I was thinking of bumping this too, as it was disscussed here (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?p=73012#post73012) as well.

I hope Fov isn't discouraged by my complaints about the multiple endings. It's still a great game.

Intrepid Homoludens

08-19-2004, 07:16 PM

I got Silent Hill 2's water ending. Man, you should have seen me. My back was limp, my eyes gaping, rivulets of tears like it was the end of the world. I was that close to bawling.

That damned letter Mary wrote James. That final scene with her lying in her deathbed. Fade to black, then the sound of James driving his car into the water.

Masterful.

Trep --> http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/sad/smily77.gif

Grey

08-19-2004, 10:09 PM

I got Silent Hill 2's water ending.

Same here, but I didn't immediately realize what James had done because you don't actually see him do it. By the time I figured it out, the mood had passed.

fishcube

08-20-2004, 02:59 AM

Wow...after reading this thread I must play SH2 :) and possibly all 3 versions??

I've read alot about them, but never really thought of them an adventure game.

Sharonkay

Eddy

08-20-2004, 03:29 AM

I've finish'd the first 2 silent hill games on hard mode and was playing SH3 on hard some moths ago but a can't beat the last boss. ;(
I think I'l have to play the game over again on normal.

GED X-42

08-20-2004, 05:02 AM

I love the Silent Hill series and can't wait for part 4, (has anyone seen the trailer for it, it is seriously f**ked up).

I've only got the 'Leave' ending and the 'Maria' ending so far for Silent Hill 2, i'll have to try for the other endings at some point.

For those people complaining about the voice acting, check out the Omimusha series, now those are games ruined by their voice acting.
Anyway I always attributed James' coldness to the feeling that after the loss of Mary, he effectively died inside and has become emotionaly dead to the world.

Oh and a side note Konami have said there will be a Silent Hill 5, but it won't be for a while and it will be coming out on the Playstation 3 and Xbox 2,(PC status unknown)

RemiO

08-20-2004, 06:25 AM

According to an interview with Akira Yamaoka in EGM, Silent Hill 5 will be entirely in first person perspective too.

Of course, this is from the guy who said SH3 would start in a cave and have Depeche Mode inspired music, so who knows. :shifty:

Intrepid Homoludens

08-20-2004, 06:31 AM

Of course, this is from the guy who said SH3 would start in a cave and have Depeche Mode inspired music, so who knows. :shifty:

Trep http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/funny/twak.gif RemiO

Cripes! What in hell were you thinking?!!

ConcreteRancor

08-20-2004, 06:36 AM

Trep http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/funny/twak.gif RemiO

Cripes! What in hell were you thinking?!!
Interpretation: I think he was referring to Akira Yamaoka, not himself.

Revision: Trep http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/funny/twak.gif Akira Yamaoka

Intrepid Homoludens

08-20-2004, 06:39 AM

Oh. Ah wot the hell, can't let a good stick go to waste.

Trep http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/funny/twak.gif CR

RemiO

08-20-2004, 07:43 AM

Yes, I try not to make Depeche Mode claims like that myself, unless I'm forced to do it. :shifty:

log p

08-20-2004, 08:16 AM

silent hill 2 sucks as an adventure game...period

Intrepid Homoludens

08-20-2004, 08:24 AM

Care to elaborate on that?

log p

08-20-2004, 08:30 AM

Grey

08-20-2004, 08:30 AM

:D

http://madrabbit.net/temp/100kph.html

RemiO

08-20-2004, 08:38 AM

lame puzzles...monsters are still present...its a survival horror game with adventure elements that are not particularly well done...the voice acting is pretty lame...i wasnt impressed but this is only the opinion of a one-legged orphan :(
If puzzles are 'lame' or not is obviously up to the individual, but at least the monsters can't kill you in easy action mode, and just for that it doesn't deserve the 'survival horror' label.

Also, if plot and story is considered adventure elements, I'd say it's all done extremely well.

But that's me. ;

log p

08-20-2004, 08:41 AM

mannequins scare me

Intrepid Homoludens

08-20-2004, 08:51 AM

lame puzzles...monsters are still present...its a survival horror game with adventure elements that are not particularly well done...the voice acting is pretty lame...i wasnt impressed but this is only the opinion of a one-legged orphan :(

Well, sorry you didn't enjoy it. Why did you think the puzzles were lame? And what did you think of the story? Have you played the first SH?

log p

08-20-2004, 10:16 AM

i never played the first silent hill but i still "got" the plot...i think the big thing is i like humor in my adventure games...possibly why i find syberia a snooze...silent hill isnt a snooze but it does have gore and mangled flesh in place of old rotting turkey and dog biscuits

insane_cobra

06-24-2005, 02:38 PM

Finished playing Silent Hill 2 today, got the leave ending. All in all, I liked it, but more about it on Monday (going to be away from my computer for a few days).

insane_cobra

06-26-2005, 02:40 PM

Before I start, I'd like to say that upon reading through this whole thread I've found I mostly agree with what Jackal had to say.

Anyway, let's begin with the things I liked and partially liked.

First of all, the atmosphere was superb. The creepiness, the shadows, the feeling of terror looming everywhere around you... I'm probably one of the few people who found SH2 scarier than the first one (which I almost didn't find scary at all). Whether it's the more detailed visuals that did it for me, better designed monsters or something entirely different, I wouldn't know, but the fact remains that it scared me much more than its predecessor ever did.

The other thing that obviously drives this game is its story. However, I regret to say that I liked the concept a lot more than the actual execution. And I'm not talking just about technical details here either, I find the plot, dialogs and characterisations severly lacking. You know, if this was a movie, I'd probably be like "Meh, it's all right..."
Don't get me wrong, for a game it's great, it deals with serious things and is pretty well thought out, but it still can't compete with the best stories told in other mediums. Unlike some other people here, most notably Trepsie, it just didn't pull the right strings for me emotionally. And even in the rare moments when it did, like in the end when Mary is reading her goodbye letter, the horrible voiceover intonations kick in and destroy the complete effort.

Also, the cutscene scripting could use a little work. While they look absolutely stunning, with all the right camera movements and other visual gimmicks in place, dialogs are still delivered in a not quite natural way. It's not just beacause of bad(-ish) acting, sometimes there are little breaks in the places where they shouldn't be, the characters on screen don't react in time, the sentences don't connect and the flow is lost. Still, they did a pretty good job with it.

Other technical aspects, like graphics, sound design and music (minus camera work, but more on that later), are really outstanding so I won't waste much time on it here.

And now onto the bad things.

Most notably gameplay. The whole gameplay, not just the fighting monsters part, is plain awful. Well, maybe awful is not the right way to put it, cause the story alone woudn't drive me to play the game to the end, but it's pretty damn bad. While I like exploring in my games, having to try every door inside every building just to find out that it's forever jammed in more that 50% cases is as fun as having a giant eagle plucking at your liver every day for the rest of your life. Well, maybe a tad more fun :)
Couldn't have they come up with something more engaging? And that camera, it's one of the worst I've seen in any game to date, never showing what it should! Oh, sure, you can move it into another position manually, but even that takes an insane amount of time considering your virtual life may be hanging on a thread. I understand that was a deliberate decision based on a wish to make things more suspensful. Well, guess what, it doesn't work, it just irritates the hell out of people! It's an artificial, or should I say lazy, way of making your game harder, like AI cheating in RTS games, and as such it should be forbidden by law! And what's the excuse for that obnoxiously long fading in and out every time you reach for your inventory or open any option screen? Maybe it was a necessity on consoles, but on PC it's just another huge pain in the butt. Some newer survival horror titles completely did away with those boring traditional interface conventions and I must say it made them much better games.

Puzzles are a mixed bag. I played on normal setting for both puzzles and combat and while some were rather interesting, most of them boiled down to reading a piece of info in someone's notes and then applying it on the right spot. Maybe it's different on hard setting, so I won't bash them too much for that. Though I sincerely hope nobody considers finding a room with a key in it and then using it to open another room a puzzle. It's just a way of making what would normally be a very short playing experience seem like something much longer.

I had no problems with combat and it probably would've been even easier had I not prefered to kill the beasties with cold weapons. Still, it wasn't much fun either.

One more gripe I have is with branching and interactivity. I think the paths leading to different endings depend too much on unimportant details when they should be depending on clear moral decisions you make throughout the game. For instance, I didn't really want to kill Eddie. I've been running around that room with my weapon unequipped for probably 20 minutes, trying to find the way to wear him down or something. Didn't help. I guess I was spoiled by the way a similar situation was handled in the first game. Also, I tried to slow down Pyramid Head allowing Maria to reach the elevator. I've been replaying that sequence for 4 or 5 times trying to figure out something I could do. Alas, I could do nothing. I didn't want to let Angela go, etc. What's the point in getting you emotionally attached and then keeping you from making any difference? It feels like cheating.

ln the end, I have to say that I wasn't disappointed with Silent Hill 2. It's definitely a very fine game and I'll probably play it again one day, but while at some things it excells, at others it fails miserably. What did disappoint me, however, is that it's not an incredible emotional gaming experience that some of you made me to believe it would be. I did make some connections with the characters, but I wasn't as saddened by what happened to everyone in the end as annoyed by the fact that I wasn't allowed much control over it. And I felt for characters in other games too, you know. So while this particular story didn't do it for me, it's definitely another step in a right direction.

Intrepid Homoludens

06-26-2005, 03:10 PM

What moves one person may not necessarily move another. I dunno, I found the idea of denying a truly horrible act in regards to someone you truly loved, guilt as a metaphoric blindness, and redemption through forgiveness to be rare but powerful exploration points for a game.

But you need to remember, the Silent Hill series also suffer from the very conventions they themselves uphold and depend on (much like tiresome and frankly dumb pixel hunting in adventure games). Some of your criticisms - like the awful camera views as a cheap way out to create suspense by screwing up gameplay - are telling of this. It could have been done better, however Survival Horror game conventions for some reason make it a rule to use non-controllable, cinematic camera angles (remember how annoying that was in Broken Sword 3?). I dunno if you have any experience playing Survival Horror games, but many of them do this. BTW, did you play the PC version with a gamepad? Because that could have made all the difference.

As for the puzzles, you should have played them on hardest difficulty. There is a BIG difference. The game's A.I. is pretty much nil, the monsters have none, they simply attack you when you get closed enough. But then again this is not a tactical action game.

For instance, I didn't really want to kill Eddie. I've been running around that room with my weapon unequipped for probably 20 minutes, trying to find the way to wear him down or something. Didn't help. I guess I was spoiled by the way a similar situation was handled in the first game. Also, I tried to slow down Pyramid Head allowing Maria to reach the elevator. I've been replaying that sequence for 4 or 5 times trying to figure out something I could do. Alas, I could do nothing. I didn't want to let Angela go, etc. What's the point in getting you emotionally attached and then keeping you from making any difference? It feels like cheating.

This I disagree with. It's like asking to be allowed to choose whether or not Kate Walker can save Helena from the mad Director in Syberia. That these events happened in the story is an important part of the narrative experience, neither Syberia or Silent Hill 2 are RPGs.

SakSquash

06-26-2005, 04:20 PM

Why does everyone shun the first one? Whenever anyone says Silent Hill, they go straight to the second one. The first one was great too! The third and fourth are crap, but the first one scared the bejesus out of me. Whured to your moms.

sethsez

06-26-2005, 04:36 PM

The first one is brilliant, but in a different way. I love it, but it's definitely a different experience from the later games. Much more open ended, much more visceral. The plot of part 2, however, is an oddity in gaming, so it gets more attention due to that.

And the fact that people here are mostly PC gamers, and the first one never came out on PC.

SakSquash

06-26-2005, 04:48 PM

samIamsad

06-26-2005, 07:29 PM

Have you seen a girl? Short, black hair.

A classic. :D

insane_cobra

06-26-2005, 11:34 PM

What moves one person may not necessarily move another. I dunno, I found the idea of denying a truly horrible act in regards to someone you truly loved, guilt as a metaphoric blindness, and redemption through forgiveness to be rare but powerful exploration points for a game. Oh I liked the idea, I just think the story could've been better.

But you need to remember, the Silent Hill series also suffer from the very conventions they themselves uphold and depend on (much like tiresome and frankly dumb pixel hunting in adventure games). Some of your criticisms - like the awful camera views as a cheap way out to create suspense by screwing up gameplay - are telling of this. It could have been done better, however Survival Horror game conventions for some reason make it a rule to use non-controllable, cinematic camera angles (remember how annoying that was in Broken Sword 3?). I dunno if you have any experience playing Survival Horror games, but many of them do this. I understand that, but that's not an excuse, just as bad adventure games conventions are not an excuse for any game that still uses them.

BTW, did you play the PC version with a gamepad? Because that could have made all the difference. I did. I played the first one on a keyboard and the second one with a gamepad. Gamepad is definitely the better choice.

As for the puzzles, you should have played them on hardest difficulty. There is a BIG difference. I'll play it on hard the next time around.

This I disagree with. It's like asking to be allowed to choose whether or not Kate Walker can save Helena from the mad Director in Syberia. That these events happened in the story is an important part of the narrative experience, neither Syberia or Silent Hill 2 are RPGs. I agree to a point, but all Silent Hill games are somewhat non-linear (not much, but still you get different endings based on your actions) and in the first one you could've make a difference with one of the characters so I just percieved this as a step backwards. I think future games that emphasize on emotional relationships between real(istic) people will have to allow for that kind of user dictated customization or people playing them will grow bitter. I can even see emotional problems caused by games once they start resembling real life enough. Games are often compared to movies, but while movies (and books etc) are completely passive experiences so we're used to the fact that we don't have any control over what's happening, games are mostly about interactivity so the connection between the on-screen character and the person controlling it is much stronger and more personal.

Why does everyone shun the first one? Whenever anyone says Silent Hill, they go straight to the second one. The first one was great too! The third and fourth are crap, but the first one scared the bejesus out of me. Whured to your moms. Really? I got the different impression. I mean, most people I talked to think the first one is still the best part of the series.

squarejawhero

06-26-2005, 11:38 PM

As far as AH2's technical limitations go, it's worth remembering it was pretty much an early PS2 title. Considering it was released around the end of 2001, it still holds up really well compared to other titles from that era.

LOOK HOW REALISTIC THE GRAPHICS ARE!

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/yyv/Otakon_2003/Silent_Hill_2_Maria.jpg
*snurk*

insane_cobra

06-27-2005, 02:05 AM

Speaking of which, this (http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/06/silent-hill-2s-christina-aguilera.html) is rather funny. :D

Intrepid Homoludens

06-27-2005, 12:19 PM

Oh I liked the idea, I just think the story could've been better.

Better how? I personally think the story could have been narrated better in terms of how it's experienced through the gameplay. It's really no different from your typical adventure game mechanics of solve puzzle > cutscene > solve puzzle > cutscene. A more dynamic, interactive exposition of plot and character would have been more engrossing.

I understand that, but that's not an excuse, just as bad adventure games conventions are not an excuse for any game that still uses them.

Unfortunately Konami, in their attempt at making emotions the key core of the game, ignored most everything else and what you got was mediocre, bland gameplay and exploration.

I did. I played the first one on a keyboard and the second one with a gamepad. Gamepad is definitely the better choice.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's sick and tired of this fixed cinematic camera angle. I don't mind it here and there, but really, it's more a sign of laziness. I wish they'd try other, more gameplay friendly ways.

I'll play it on hard the next time around.

:) Do that. Crank the combat difficulty down and set the puzzle at hardest difficulty, it'll feel even more like an adventure game.

I agree to a point, but all Silent Hill games are somewhat non-linear (not much, but still you get different endings based on your actions) and in the first one you could've make a difference with one of the characters so I just percieved this as a step backwards. I think future games that emphasize on emotional relationships between real(istic) people will have to allow for that kind of user dictated customization or people playing them will grow bitter. I can even see emotional problems caused by games once they start resembling real life enough. Games are often compared to movies, but while movies (and books etc) are completely passive experiences so we're used to the fact that we don't have any control over what's happening, games are mostly about interactivity so the connection between the on-screen character and the person controlling it is much stronger and more personal.

The plot direction in SH2 shifts a lot more subtely compared to the first SH, depending on James' 'behaviour'. For example...

...examining the knife Angela leaves behind too often, studying the photo of his dead wife Mary, and always stopping and waiting for Maria to catch up, means that James is contemplating hurting himself and is clinging to the past (personified by Maria, a look-a-like of Mary). In the end, he commits suicide out of guilt for euthanizing the terminally ill Mary (the water ending).

Really? I got the different impression. I mean, most people I talked to think the first one is still the best part of the series.

I think the first SH is the best in terms of sheer atmosphere and scare factor. It's a brilliant, psychological take on fear and horror because 1) You have no idea WTF is going on, 2) The feeling of being lost is quite intense, 3) The unpredictably shifting dimensions cause a sense of instability - you do NOT know what will happen next.

But I think SH2 has the best story in terms of emotional resonance and symbolism; guilt, loss, insecurity, vengeance, and resentment are the central themes. You see it in the characters - Angela, searching for her mother, who she may or may not have harmed; Eddy, who has been victimized most of his life; Maria, who may be an incarnation of James' darkest desires and fears.

insane_cobra

06-27-2005, 02:13 PM

Better how? I personally think the story could have been narrated better in terms of how it's experienced through the gameplay. It's really no different from your typical adventure game mechanics of solve puzzle > cutscene > solve puzzle > cutscene. A more dynamic, interactive exposition of plot and character would have been more engrossing. I'm not sure how, I didn't suggest I rewrite it :)
It's just that I wasn't too impressed with it, that's all. I agree with you, I think they should've modified the gameplay to better fit the story, but then it wouldn't be Silent Hill anymore and that's where they'd probably hit the (executive) wall.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's sick and tired of this fixed cinematic camera angle. I don't mind it here and there, but really, it's more a sign of laziness. I wish they'd try other, more gameplay friendly ways. You should try The Suffering, it has standard third person action controls (it's been compared to Max Payne in that regard) and the outcome of the game AND your character's personal history are actually decided by the way you treat the characters you meet on your journey.

The plot direction in SH2 shifts a lot more subtely compared to the first SH, depending on James' 'behaviour'. For example...

...examining the knife Angela leaves behind too often, studying the photo of his dead wife Mary, and always stopping and waiting for Maria to catch up, means that James is contemplating hurting himself and is clinging to the past (personified by Maria, a look-a-like of Mary). In the end, he commits suicide out of guilt for euthanizing the terminally ill Mary (the water ending). I kept examining the knife, the photo and the letter cause I've been wondering what the hell was I supposed to do with them :D
The team obviously had good intentions, but it didn't really work out that great.For instance, when reading about all the different endings once I beat the game, I was surprised that I didn't get the Maria ending. Then it came to me that I listened to that whole conversation before entering the last fight and that made all the difference.

Btw, it seems they'll be able to cast real zombie dogs (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html) for the Silent Hill movie. :D