• Log In | Sign Up

  • News
  • Reviews
  • Top Games
  • Search
  • New Releases
  • Daily Deals
  • Forums

Ask the Developers

Have you ever wanted to be a fly on the wall when a group of adventure developers gather together to discuss game design, genre issues, and industry concerns? Or better yet, how about having those same developers share their perspectives on issues that concern you?

Wish no further, for that time has come. Welcome to the first-ever edition of “Ask The Developers.”

What is this all about? The brainchild of Laura MacDonald and Steve Ince, this is an idea born out of spontaneous developer discussion in our ongoing forum Developer Chats. The intent of this round table gathering is to offer a glimpse into the minds of those who shape the genre. It also allows the developers, themselves, an opportunity to meet together to mutually brainstorm, generate insight, and even explore better creative ideas about how to design, develop and sell adventure games.

Every month, one question of key interest will be carefully chosen. Then we will select a special group of guest developers and invite them to a real-time (and completely unrehearsed) chat amongst themselves to offer their expertise, answers and dialogue. The guests will change from month to month depending on the topic, the relevant experience, and interests. After the guests have left, the full discussion will be carefully logged, organized, and culled. The resulting “best of the chat” will be published here at AG.

Now, here’s where you need to sit up and take notice. This is called “Ask The Developers” for good reason. We want you, fellow gamers, to ask them. Anyone who has a burning question should send it in. We will go through the questions submitted, and choose one hot topic each month. This is your chance to have an entire group of the best in the biz at your personal disposal (more or less). To make it easy, we even have a special email listing just for you.

So send your questions on anything adventure gaming to: atd@adventuregamers.com


For our inaugural installment, our co-hosts and guests are:

[Color=DarkRed]Laura MacDonald:[/color] Hi, I am Laura MacDonald, writer and publisher-developer liaison for Adventure Gamers, and co-host with Steve Ince for this gathering.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve Ince:[/color] I worked with Revolution for eleven years and am now working as a freelance writer-designer.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn Goodwin:[/color] I'm the VP of Marketing for Her Interactive, publishers of the Nancy Drew series.

[Color=Navy]Tony Warriner:[/color] I'm a founder of Revolution – Broken Sword, Steel Sky, and stuff like that.

[Color=Navy]Martin Ganteföhr:[/color] My name is Martin Ganteföhr, House of Tales Entertainment's co-founder and Creative Director; latest project is The Moment of Silence, a third-person adventure game.

The topic of our first chat centers on U.S. markets. With a few exceptions--notably the Her Interactive Nancy Drew series and Legacy’s Law & Order games--the vast majority of adventure games are designed and developed in Europe. As vast as the gaming market is in the United States, sales for adventure games have been lackluster. In happy contrast, European sales are fairly robust and improving over time. Euro-developers have said that signing with U.S. publishers is chaotic at times, and they feel somewhat disadvantaged in their negotiations and ability to oversee marketing efforts and distribution. Which raises the overall question:

Are U.S. markets for adventure games worth pursuing aggressively, and if so, how can developers make them work?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] The U.S. is a real problem, and there's no getting away from it.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Currently the Nancy Drew games are distributed only in the U.S. and Canada. We're on our 11th game, and are still here--so I would say, there is a strong market in the U.S.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Why don't they come to Europe, by the way...?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] We don't have an overseas distribution partner yet--if anyone here has any ideas, I would be very open.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] DTP is most certainly the company to talk to in Germany.

U.S. adventure gamers seem to have a cultural attraction for certain well known “titles” or brand names. Is this a reliable game basis for developers to consider?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Yes, Nancy Drew is very much a part of the culture, but so are many brands. I think our success has more to do with identifying a target demographic and marketing directly to it.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Yes--very much harder when dealing with European adventure brands, albeit successful brands

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] I've read a lot about Nancy Drew. That's why, given the European market being relatively strong, I was wondering why it hasn't been released in Europe yet.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Rather than starting with the acquisition of a “super-hot” brand, which would then define our demographic target, we chose our demographic first and then picked a brand. Nancy Drew wasn’t the hottest brand going a few years ago, but it is today.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Doesn't that limit how much originality you can put into your games?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] We've run into some of the same resistance abroad that we initially encountered in the U.S.--that girls don't play computer games. If there aren't any for them to play, they certainly won't. Our licensor has learned to trust our respect for the brand, and gives us lots of freedom in where to take the games. We use the books as just a skeleton. It's critical to learn the brand, and to gain the licensor’s confidence. And, of course, to be picky in who you choose to partner with. Simon & Schuster has been great to work with.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] In Germany at least, there are some computer games targeted at girls and they are very successful. Would you say: Nancy is rather a "girl-phenomenon" or an "adventure games phenomenon"?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] I think they're a little bit of both. We believe there is a market in the U.S. for branded, quality adventure PC games marketed to specific demographic groups through non-traditional media--i.e., not just through game magazines and game sites. Branded adventure games do well through the mass merchants--they are a good match for the casual gamer who’s browsing the game shelves for an appealing, accessible game. Having a known brand name on the box doesn’t hurt either.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] The trouble is that the market won't move beyond those brands and into the genre as a whole.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] The Wal-Mart buyer is very receptive to the adventure category; it has performed well there.

So the discussion returned to the bigger issue. If the U.S. has a basis for adventure games to be profitable, how can European developers make it work for them?

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] First thing: The publishers need to pick them up.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] That's a challenge no matter where you are; it took us several years after our first game was released to get distribution. We started by selling on Amazon to build a track record, and invested all of our money there. We were able to show publishers where we ranked at Amazon, and how that would translate if we were in the retail channel in terms of sales numbers. It was a very accurate way to predict performance.

[Color=DarkRed] Steve:[/color] Why is it that there isn't a parallel for good sales in Europe leading to publishers taking a title on?

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] I think there is a parallel in a way. My observation is that most U.S. publishers wait to see how a title does in Europe before signing it.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] The crazy thing there is that they then miss out on all the "free" publicity that flies around on the title's launch and must rely on their own marketing campaign later.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] I think deferring decisions is a good way to avoid making them

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] It goes both ways; we've had a difficult time convincing European distributors that our success would translate there. Are brands less important to success in Europe?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Carolyn, I'm really surprised. I think Nancy Drew would do really well over here.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Nancy Drew isn't a brand that's well known in Britain, in a general sense, so you wouldn't have the same market awareness.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] No, but I'd heard of it... And it’s a good head start for a solid game in a market that is receptive to adventures.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] She is very popular in France, Sweden, and Germany, but under other names (Alice Roy, Kitty Drew, etc.)

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] The same question goes out to the U.S.: Are brands the most important thing to success over there?

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Surely part of being able to sell in the likes of Wal-Mart is that someone can pass by and say "Ah, Nancy Drew..."

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] There's no denying that brands are a critical factor. One look at NPD's list confirms that; adventure games are headed up by Nancy Drew, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter--but Myst is there, too.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] You are selling on Amazon.co.uk... is that doing ok?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Yes, Amazon.uk is great for us.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] That's good to hear.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] If brands are a key factor to success in the U.S., why do you think it is that we don't see other famous AG games from the U.S. used for new productions? (like with Leisure Suit Larry 8, in a totally un-adventure-y way)

Players do seem attracted to familiar characters and storylines. But that just seems to open the door. Don’t you also have to consider whether the “brand name” is attractive to a wide-spread rather than “niche” group of gamers?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] I think you do.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] I'm not sure. Some of these brands are too small, you think?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] You say Larry and you think adventure... that's a problem over there. People don’t have confidence to invest in the development or marketing.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Not too small, just not wide enough to sell to the people who have an awareness of the scale of Nancy Drew. Isn't that a self-fulfilling way of working though, Tony?

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Ok. But half of the sales of Nancy would be great already. I know many of us would break out the champagne for that.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Yes, and the more it happens the harder it becomes to reverse it because there is no data to look at. It will happen in Europe too--we pray for people to compete with Broken Sword, just to say "there is a market."

Should developers design games based on what adventure gamers want, rather than trying to sell them on a new concept? And how do developers figure out who these gamers are and what they truly want in their games?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] In the U.S., it's helpful to look at targeting a specific demographic, if you're a small studio. It allows you to focus your limited resources. Women offer a good opportunity; according to NPD they now buy more PC games than men.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Is the answer to adapt the genre to the market? Either by working with brands, targeting women, or incorporating elements like action?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Women play Broken Sword--which helps explain its success, I think. Not the latter, Steve.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] I am interested in Tony's comment about the lack of hard data. How much of this is a factor right now?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Hard data is a big problem--a genre needs a track record...

Are there specific groups that are interested in adventure gaming that have been overlooked by developers?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Yes, boys 8 - 13.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Perhaps what we need is a "grown-up" version for when these boys and girls grow older?

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] They will still cry for Sam & Max, Steve, even when they've grown up...

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] Don’t go there.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Sorry. *grin*

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Recruit the young! (we sound like the Marlboro man)

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] What I mean is a brand that appeals to those same people as they mature--adventures based on best-selling adult novels (adult in the best sense, of course).

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] I think a market exists for adults for this content, anyway--Harry Potter is read by everyone.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Well, that still boils down to “brands rule the world.” Tom Clancy's Adventure Game.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] "Star Wars - The Adventure"

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] True--but the Harry Potter brand once didn’t exist...

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] It's the way the industry is heading anyway, but we don't do adventure games with those brands, because we can't afford the licenses...

But what about “how” the games are designed? Do certain design features enhance sales of games within the market for adventure games? And what about IP’s, to avoid monotony and sterility within the genre, games must seek out new ideas, new stories. How do developers get the information they need about what gamers want or do not want, and still create innovative plotlines and formats without alienating those gamers?

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] I think part of the problem is how a series gets translated into a gameplay model. Tom Clancy as a stealth, inventory-driven mystery would appeal more to women whereas as an action game it would not. So perhaps these familiar titles aren’t being adequately exploited in ways that could capture a broader market.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Yes, Laura! A lot of interesting stuff could be done with some of these titles. But the reason they don’t... is a lack of data.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] Good point, Tony. What we really need is a joint market data effort--gathering info from a variety of efforts to build some sort of viable data base.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Maybe it's just my view, but I think many of us work to *invent* a brand instead of "exploiting" one.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Perhaps exploiting a brand is a way of supporting your original IP?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] That's the goal, Martin... but these well known titles could help the genre, which in turn...

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Also, if you develop a user base and community based on a branded product, you then have a track record, and a base to market an original IP to.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] So, we'd have to create games based on U.S. IP's to then trick them into buying our *own* inventions.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] I don't see that as tricking. Many TV and film writers start out by writing for soap operas--it's a means to an end.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] I was kidding, Steve--I know it works that way. Brands are a big opportunity, but they can be very limiting, too.

Moving past familiar series, TV shows and book titles... What other avenues are available to create adventure games that are unique, creative and still appeal? Could looking at other art mediums help adventure game developers?

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] What about development houses as their own brands? For example, the marketing of games with Benoit Sokal on the box.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] That's the "super-goal", Laura.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Many publishers seem intent on putting their own "brand" before that of the developer.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Benoit Sokal worked 30 years to appear on a box.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] The record industry figured this one out decades ago...

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] And the book industry before them.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Yup, movie studios, too.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] So perhaps the model is there and adventure game developers should take ideas from these related arts?

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Perhaps we'll know the games industry has matured when this happens.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Birds will sing out, and flowers blossom.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] That's a long title for a game.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] hahaha

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] grin

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] I always wondered if the greater glory in marketing and selling adventure games in specific is to pattern efforts modeled after books. Also, It seems like console games and adventure PC games are two very different beasts both with what gamers they attract and how to sell them.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Certainly there seems to be a lot of common ground.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] The PC market is a niche, and adventure games are a niche in an niche. And European adventure games in the U.S. are a niche in a niche in a niche. Hooray...

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Martin... very true. Though it wasn't always so dire.

Is the problem that adventure games just won’t sell well? Or are appearances deceptive and the real issue is that they need to be marketed and sold in a special manner?

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Our decision to target girls and women meant that the traditional venues for promoting games wouldn't work. That might apply to all adventure games, if you're wanting to reach a broader market. We can't afford big print campaigns. So we do mall tours, viral marketing, other guerrilla marketing tactics.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] Perhaps what financial limits forced you into turned out to be precisely a better way TO market adventure games, regardless of budgets.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] I agree. A lot of all marketing is rather slack--bigger budgets tend to get thrown around unimaginatively. Smaller ones made to work hard.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Oh--and I thought I was brilliant, really it was just that I was poor. *laugh*

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] Well, brilliance finds its way regardless.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] The majority of publishers aren't geared up to this style of marketing, though.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Guerrilla marketing tactics. That's the way it works in Europe, basically. People like DTP or Focus Home Interactive are basically guerrilla companies that use their creativity instead of big budget marketing..

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] A good example was the JFK game recently.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] For dubious reasons, perhaps?

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] Well, perhaps if you are a niche, exploit that as in indie film houses (no longer poor) still push that cachet of being "artsy and outside the mainstream."

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] That's a different issue—it’s one to study in other respects. As long as everyone knows you are artsy and outside of the mainstream, of course.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] The "establishment" of adventure games.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Isn’t that Sierra?

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Magnetic Scrolls.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] I think Revolution has taken on the mantle now that Sierra and LucasArts no longer do adventures.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] How I dearly wish those guys were still around!

Optimism raised its head when the discussion turned to current sales of adventure games in Germany. It has proven to have a strong and growing adventure gaming fan base and matching sales. Is there anything to be learned from the German market to help improve sales in the U.S.?

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] The German market is by far the biggest. At least for us it always has been.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Adventure games are very popular over here. It's by no means spectacular when you compare it to the sales of other genres, but it is very good.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] There is a healthy scene there--albeit without big budgets, which holds the games back a little, I guess.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] I think the German market is what made an operation like HoT possible in the first place.

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Sure. I had great fun at Leipzig a couple of years back.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] You should come by in 2005. We're there, and we can have a beer. *grin*

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] I'll come.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] We're looking forward to it.

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] I'm in! How about Her Interactive? Perhaps a showing there? Assuming one isn’t already planned.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] I'd love to join the fun.

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Perhaps we should have an adventure developers gathering--a show of solidarity.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] Great. You're all on the list. *grin*

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Do I sense that the chat is winding down now we're onto more important topics like beer?

Well, now that an in-depth study of German resources has been decided, any final thoughts on marketing adventure games in the US?

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] It seems to me that Carolyn's brilliance is the key to succeeding in the U.S.

[Color=Navy]Carolyn:[/color] Thanks for the opportunity, it's been great "meeting" all of you, and thanks for the tips on overseas distribution (send them my way!) I would be interested in that discussion, too--you want to get over here, I want to get over there. If we keep talking, maybe we can make it happen. Thanks for setting it up, Laura!

[Color=Navy]Tony:[/color] Sure thing.

[Color=Navy]Martin:[/color] OK, here's mine: With all these issues to work through, I'm just happy we were able to sign our U.S. publishing deal recently. Thanks, Carolyn. It's been very interesting. Thanks, Laura!

[Color=DarkRed]Laura:[/color] You are all welcome. It has been our pleasure. Really, this has been excellent!

[Color=DarkRed]Steve:[/color] Yes! it's been really good to chat with everyone. Thanks to you all.

 

continue reading below

Referenced Adventure Games

continue reading below
feature
Back to the top